ID & Documents

[Simmo!]

Can someone answer a query for me regarding ID and documents?

Whenever i have come to cash out at any casino that isn't aimed at the UK market (where i live), I get asked for ID on the first "major" cashout. But 32Red, Ladbrokes, Littlewoods, Will Hill etc have never asked me for that. I win (sometimes!), i withdraw, i get paid.

Is this becuase they are UK and I am UK? Do these 4 casinos ask non-UK residents for ID? If not, how come they don't need it and many others do?

With that in mind, why do casinos that ask for ID ask only at the point they pay out and not when they accept a deposit? Surely, morally at least, they have more of a duty to ensure that the money they accept is not from a fraudulent source? Or am i missing something?

Cheers

Simmo!

 

[nafanny29]

Very good question Simmo. I have had to provide ID to some UK casinos but not others.

Ecash send a PIN which verifies that your address is valid which I think is a very good approach by them.

I really dont understand why ID is needed as any winnings is recredited to whatever method you use to deposit. So if you used a stolen card to deposit with the winnings is returned to the stolen card which would be of no use to you at all.

The only reason I can think of is money laundering but even that is not possible given the above.

I use tesco for online shopping and have spends 1000s over the last 3 years but have never been asked for ID

I think the whole ID thing can only be either a delaying tactic or possibly to stop multiple account abuse.

 

[lanidar]

Neteller Deposits

What I don't understand, and I'm being facetious, is if I made a Neteller deposit into ANY casino, why should I have to go through fax backs, ID's and all the other nonsense of jumping through hoops to get MY money back.
Neteller goes through a thorough bank verification. And, in turn, my bank won't open an account without a drivers license (or some sort of proper photo ID) and a utility bill.
So, all this is taken care of LONG before these casinos want me to go through all this CRAP again!
I believe that the ONLY reason the casinos delay payments is to keep OUR money in THEIR bank that much longer.
Now, don't tell me about security BS because that is what it is ...BS!
All the security was handled and taken care of BY the bank and Neteller!!

 

[Simmo!]

What I don't understand, and I'm being facetious, is if I made a Neteller deposit into ANY casino, why should I have to go through fax backs, ID's and all the other nonsense of jumping through hoops to get MY money back. Neteller goes through a thorough bank verification...

Thats a very good point Lanidar.

 

[bethug]

landiar, i agree with . I made the same statement 3 years ago.
Nostalgia ask me to fax back some forms, i told them nope, pull it up from phoneican you own by the same place, they was nice enough to do that.

 

[eek]

The UK stuff isn't normally a problem because it just gets fired back to your card and if the surplus can't (winnings) it gets mailed.
You usually have to provide ID if you deposit by one method and withdraw via another.

The sky group used to allow withdrawals less than $500 with no id if you deposited/withdrew by neteller. Geisha Lounge had a $500 limit too, but it no longer says much about it on their site just a 'In certain instances further documentation will be required' comment.

 

[lanidar]

Neteller Deposits

Thats a very good point Lanidar.

Thanks Simmo... :notworthy
It's just that I'm COMPLETELY fed up with their excuses...and that what it is EXCUSES, of why I need to send them personal info. The only ones that I want to have that info is my bank and my Neteller account. There is NO reason in the world that I should be advertising my personal info all over the Internet.
And, don't forget, these casinos share this info. Some of them steal it and some of them sell it. That's a fact that seems to be put on the back shelf somewhere that no one wants to discuss.
I'm sick and tired of these casino managers like CLOUD wanting my fax backs, ID's and utility bills. Who the hell is he to make him entitled to share this info with me.
The man's a cheat and a thief. There are VERY few casinos that I trust out there...VERY few. And even those few, I wouldn't want to have my info either. There are so many casinos changing hands now a days that you REALLY don't know where that info will wind up.

Time to get off my soap box.

Thanks again Simmo

 

[tunisianswife]

what's the difference?

I agree with the above opinions. What I have never been able to understand is if they are so concerned about fraud, etc. why is it that they have no problems with ID and fax back forms when they ACCEPT deposits? It seems the same would apply to deposits based upon this logic.

Yes, I agree that most wants one to jump through hoops in order to get their "surplus" (loved that term)

 

[virtualted]

Lanidar, the main reason we request an ID on Neteller or other E-cash transactions is to verify your identity. As an example, had we banned your account for lets say fraudulent activity in the past, and you open an account with a fake name and address to circumvent our security protocol, should'nt we know who we are paying? Last week we offered a free chip, to all customers, do you realize that I had to ban over 25,000 accounts by customers who opened a number of accounts to receive the free chip. One customer opened 765 accounts, and than won. Than got upset when we asked to see his ID to match up to his account. So that is why we ask for an Id here. Also we ask you to send your ID as soon as you sign up, so that way we never run in to a problem. It is sad that honest true gamblers, have to "go through hoops", but you must remember that there are a large percentage of players who are scammers. Bryan needs to update his evil player section more often, I doubt legitate players realize how many scammers are out there, both casino and player.
Ted

 

[Simmo!]

...do you realize that I had to ban over 25,000 accounts by customers who opened a number of accounts to receive the free chip. One customer opened 765 accounts, and than won. Than got upset when we asked to see his ID to match up to his account.
Ted

Wow. Thats just incredible. An eye opener for sure!

Also we ask you to send your ID as soon as you sign up, so that way we never run in to a problem.

That's to be applauded in my book. I can see why ID might be required, but that's how it should be Ted, at sign-upa nd clear in the T&C's. Wish more did it that way.

Managing a business is as much about managing expectations as anything else in my experience. Get that right and loyalty follows.

Plus its nice to get real answers from your side rather than player speculation Ted (no disrepect to anyone for their opinions here of course).

Thanks.

Simmo!

 

[lanidar]

Id's And Documents

virtualted

Lanidar, the main reason we request an ID on Neteller

I have a Neteller account.
I have a personal ID and a Secure, ID...which I share with no one.
When I make a deposit into a casino FROM MY Neteller account I expect the winnings to go DIRECTLY back to THAT EXACT account. Why would it or should it go any where else but back to MY Neteller account?
I don't know about credit cards or other E-cash transactions.
All I'M talking about is Neteller.
Knowing all that, which I'm sure you knew already, why in the world would I want to give you or anyone else my MOST personal info?
Look at William Hill (paid next day), Sunny Group (paid in three days), Starluck Group (paid next day), Oasis (paid same day), VIP Casinos (paid two days) and on and on.
I've played in over 100 casinos. And I play everyday. BUT, I only play in the best casinos. The ones with timely payouts and excellent customer service.
No faxbacks...No ID's...No NONSENSE!

 

[Sodax77]

virtualted


I have a Neteller account.
I have a personal ID and a Secure, ID...which I share with no one.
When I make a deposit into a casino FROM MY Neteller account I expect the winnings to go DIRECTLY back to THAT EXACT account. Why would it or should it go any where else but back to MY Neteller account?.....

...BUT, I only play in the best casinos. The ones with timely payouts and excellent customer service.
No faxbacks...No ID's...No NONSENSE!

Same here. And i use only NETeller (certified) as banking method. Nothing else.
But NO casino never ask me any ID's... never... After many, many cash outs.
Ok these casinos, where i play have good reputation. AND, i always contact to new casino before i deposit, and i ask all possible question...
Even about their business. Latest example is Bodog... and they sent very informative reply. Probably next place, where i open account.

 

[Chill]

Lanidar, the main reason we request an ID on Neteller or other E-cash transactions is to verify your identity.
Ted

Why on earth do you need an ID for a neteller transaction, your log wil show the name of the player doing the transaction. If the name of player and neteller dosen't match, then and only then should you start to ask if something is wrong.

 

[Ping]

Maybe when NETeller first asked for some ID, have it scanned and ready in your computer, so that anytime some online casinos ask for some ID, you can easily email it to them.

Besides, I dont see anything wrong with ID verification. At least you'll know the online casino is doing some job regarding security. You wouldnt want someone claiming your winnings instead? You trust them and risk your hard earned money with them, why not with your ID?

Just my 2 cents ...



Ping

 

[lanidar]

Ping

Besides, I dont see anything wrong with ID verification. At least you'll know the online casino is doing some job regarding security. You wouldnt want someone claiming your winnings instead?

That "security" line that the casinos are tell you is JUST a lot of BS!!
The point is that with a NETELLER account you should NOT have to give these people PERSONAL info.
Who cares about someone else getting your winnings.
How would you like someone to get YOUR Social Security number...the name of your bank...your HOME phone number...ETC.
Neteller ALREADY went through a SECURITY check with my bank.
Don't you understand that there is absolutely NO need for this?
Once again...

THE ONLY REASON WHY THE CASINOS WANT THE FAXBACKS, ID'S, UTILITY BILLS IS JUST AN EXCUSE TO KEEP YOUR MONEY LONGER.

I can't understand why some people out there just don't get it.

PERIOD!!!

 

[Sodax77]

Ping

1.That "security" line that the casinos are tell you is JUST a lot of BS!!...

2. THE ONLY REASON WHY THE CASINOS WANT THE FAXBACKS, ID'S, UTILITY BILLS IS JUST AN EXCUSE TO KEEP YOUR MONEY LONGER.

3. I can't understand why some people out there just don't get it.

1. = Yes that is true, if you use some trusted 3rd party system, like NETeller, then there is no need to re-check these thing (exclude: some random check, or if you hit some huge jackpot )

2-3. = True and Maybe your letters are too small

But you are so right! Because why those trusted casinos never ask any ID from me (when i use only NETeller), because they don't have to tell me million excuses... (read=BS). And they know and trust, that NETTELLER USE HIGH SECURITY SYSTEM!

My turn. Period.

 

[lanidar]

Id's And Documents

1. = Yes that is true, if you use some trusted 3rd party system, like NETeller, then there is no need to re-check these thing (exclude: some random check, or if you hit some huge jackpot )

2-3. = True and Maybe your letters are too small

But you are so right! Because why those trusted casinos never ask any ID from me (when i use only NETeller), because they don't have to tell me million excuses... (read=BS). And they know and trust, that NETTELLER USE HIGH SECURITY SYSTEM!

My turn. Period.

Thanks Sodax77 for your support. :notworthy
If I didn't believe what I said I wouldn't post it.
Hey...are my letters really too small?

 

[bethug]

Ted, i know all about crooked players, they hit me up weekly with a plan, I dont know why people think i steal, all black people dont steal or should i say from the hood.

But ted why do you need to check if they use neteller, how can they use other information, one account and one email at neteller.

Now if you giving out free chips , i understand cause u dont need to depoist to get the money.

but if i use neteller and get a bonus and win, why do u need to check my id, ssi number and all that bull,

 

[lanidar]

Ted, i know all about crooked players, they hit me up weekly with a plan, I dont know why people think i steal, all black people dont steal or should i say from the hood.

But ted why do you need to check if they use neteller, how can they use other information, one account and one email at neteller.

Now if you giving out free chips , i understand cause u dont need to depoist to get the money.

but if i use neteller and get a bonus and win, why do u need to check my id, ssi number and all that bull,

GO GET 'EM BETHUG!!!

 

[Sodax77]

GO GET 'EM BETHUG!!!

... i think those letters are still too small

NOT!!! Maybe people realize.... someday!

And when i say Reputable before, i didn't mean CM-list, but usually.

And you're welcome Lanidar, And i write, because i also agree this thing.

And if Ted or whatever say something to this.... i mean deposit players, players who deposit and withdraw with NETeller.
CC, etc is different story.

 

[virtualted]

On the issue of Neteller deposits and withdrawals only and nothing else. I have had the same checking account since I was 14, and I have had credit cards from about 17 on. Neteller when I signed up with them did verify my checking account, but never verified my age. We also to have a lot of areas of the world, that are restricted from playing in some of the casinos. A lot of players from the U.S would like to play at 32 red, but are barred. What if you lied and said you were in England gave a false address and deposited by Neteller and lost than, than asked for all of your money back because you were not eligible to play there, and you threaten to sue for it back, because all though you were wrong to give a false address, it was as wrong for the casino not to verify information.
It is funny where tis strand is running to. As a merchant in the U.S before coming here, I always suggested a second ID when I took a credit card from a customer, even though it was not actually even legal, but it sure is a lot easier to stop most problems before they happen. I am willing to bet, that the casinos that require an Id, ask you to send it in as soon as you sign up, but only enforce it when you cash out, but had asked for it in the begining. One more thing on this subject, Neteller is not perfect, there chargeback percentage is much much lower than any of the other e-wallets out there, but we do from time to time get a ding for accepting Neteller that was set-up fraudently. Everyone must remember these are all third party representatives of the casino. Neteller does not garantee Id or eligibility for us. If Neteller went out of business tomorrow owing the casino the hold on the last month deposits, would it be ok for the casino to with hold a players win, because technically the player never gave it directly to the casino. I think as a casino we would be liable to pay the player, because you used our third party, but you still need to abide by the casinos rules. Sorry I got so long, but one last thing, all I am asking for is an Id, not bills or fingerprints or some of the other things some places ask for. Also in the UK, their Id's do not have pictures on them, and they do not update as often as the U.S does, so that could be one reason that they do not require the Id there.
Ted

 

[lanidar]

Id's And Documents

virtualted

Neteller when I signed up with them did verify my checking account, but never verified my age.

I had to be 18 or over to open a checking account. So, the bank took care of that problem for Neteller.

A lot of players from the U.S. would like to play at 32 red, but are barred. What if you lied and said you were in England gave a false address and deposited by Neteller

To get a false address from England...open a bank account...open a Neteller account with the English bank is a bit much. Also you have to remember that BEFORE Neteller approves your account they put pennies into your bank account, which you have to verify and then they DEMAND a phone call from you with the Secure info from your Neteller account. If there is any doubt from where the phone call is coming from Neteller will insist that they call you back. PLUS, Neteller tracks your IP address. So, if you're from the U.S. and you sign up stating you're from England the IP will not be an IP from Europe it will be from the U.S.
I played for my son Justin once who lives in Chicago. I'm in New York. He opened an account at a casino, phoned me and told me about it and went to college. I moved the funds into his Neteller account from mine. Went back to Justin's Neteller account only to find it was locked and so was mine. Neteller wanted to know why my IP was from N.Y. and still play from Chicago. I can't be in two places at the same time.
So, I think that drills a hole in your theory regarding the above quote.

And, I agree that no E-cash method is perfect but Neteller IS the closest you'll get regarding security.

You and I are going to go around and around on this issue. You have your beliefs and so do I.
Your beliefs are not going to change and neither will mine.
I guess we'll just have to leave it at that and leave it up to the individual player to make the decision of whether or not they want do put there ID's ETC out there.

 

[Simmo!]

A lot of players from the U.S. would like to play at 32 red, but are barred. What if you lied and said you were in England gave a false address and deposited by Neteller

virtualted

To get a false address from England...open a bank account...open a Neteller account with the English bank is a bit much.

You wouldn't actually need to do that L. I can see where Ted's coming from here i think. You can still open a Real Account at a UK casino pretending to be from England (rather than the USA, say) and deposit/withdraw via NETeller and the casino would be breaking English law - they'd have to check somehow.

Makes sense if NETeller and the casinos work together on this though from all parties POV. Would save the player doing it again and thus they would be happier to play there. Plus NETeller would see more revenue throughput and the casino would have managed expectations successfully. IE: seamless and hassle-free.

That said, one assumes there would still be a delay while details were checked maybe unless NETeller provided an automated method for the casino to check the "certification" status of a NETeller player.

As an aside, there is a proposed change to English law allowing casinos to take USA citizen bets but whether it actually goes through is another matter!

PS. I kinda wanted the answer to be factual rather than speculative. We all know there are personal opinions on the subject of ID.

 

[lanidar]

You wouldn't actually need to do that L. I can see where Ted's coming from here i think. You can still open a Real Account at a UK casino pretending to be from England (rather than the USA, say) and deposit/withdraw via NETeller

Also you have to remember that BEFORE Neteller approves your account they put pennies into your bank account, which you have to verify and then they DEMAND a phone call from you with the Secure info from your Neteller account. If there is any doubt from where the phone call is coming from Neteller will insist that they call you back. PLUS, Neteller tracks your IP address. So, if you're from the U.S. and you sign up stating you're from England the IP will not be an IP from Europe it will be from the U.S.

PS. I kinda wanted the answer to be factual rather than speculative. We all know there are personal opinions on the subject of ID.

I agree. there are too many what if's. I am speacking of fact not fiction.
I've never attempted to open an account at 32red because I knew that my account would not be permited. There are too many good casinos here to play at that will accept my money.

 

[Chill]

If casinos are so bloody conserned about being ripped of, then why don't all new accounts get locked upfront until proper ID check is done? They have NO problems accepting $1000 when some new player deposits, but when the same player tries to withdraw the $1000 he is suddenly an evil person trying to stiff the casino until he proves otherwise.

 

[lanidar]

If casinos are so bloody conserned about being ripped of, then why don't all new accounts get locked upfront until proper ID check is done? They have NO problems accepting $1000 when some new player deposits, but when the same player tries to withdraw the $1000 he is suddenly an evil person trying to stiff the casino until he proves otherwise.

GOOD QUESTION!
But, I think we ALL know the answer to that one.
They want to hold on to YOUR

 

[jpm]

I believe Ted was saying you could take your already established neteller account and while being a US resident, sign up at 32Red and give them a false address in England but use your already established & certified neteller account to make your deposit. Since the casino doesn't verify your mailing address with neteller, just your email address, this could work until you have to send ID verification to the casino and they find out your are a US resident.

 

[lanidar]

I believe Ted was saying you could take your already established neteller account and while being a US resident, sign up at 32Red and give them a false address in England but use your already established & certified neteller account to make your deposit. Since the casino doesn't verify your mailing address with neteller, just your email address, this could work until you have to send ID verification to the casino and they find out your are a US resident.

But my IP, when I register at 32red, will show a U.S. IP and not one from Europe. I believe that is correct.

 

[jpm]

It will if they bother to check it thru ARIN or some other method. Its not like an area code that you can tell by looking at it, it would take some checking to see where it resolves to and even that isn't 100% conclusive of your location.

 

[Simmo!]

Plus you can easily link out thru an anonymous proxy server anyway...

 

[lanidar]

It will if they bother to check it thru ARIN or some other method. Its not like an area code that you can tell by looking at it, it would take some checking to see where it resolves to and even that isn't 100% conclusive of your location.

If they are so concerned about security...then they should go through the trouble of checking the IP.
Also, false ID's ie: drivers licences, are VERY easy to forge. So are utility bills.
Unless they call you back, which would seem like an awful lot of trouble to go through with the possibilty of hundreds of players, may be the only way to be sure where the individual is located.

Look, what I'm trying to do is protect myself from strangers getting info that could do my credit a great deal of harm.
The casino wants to protect themselves from players that are not permitted to play at their casino...then check the IP...call the player....or what ever they need to do short of asking for my personal info.
This is how I feel.

 

[Simmo!]

Look, what I'm trying to do is protect myself from strangers getting info that could do my credit a great deal of harm.
The casino wants to protect themselves from players that are not permitted to play at their casino...then check the IP...call the player....or what ever they need to do short of asking for my personal info.
This is how I feel.

There's nothing wrong with that Lanidar - I think in the past i've felt that a casino took way to long to pay me using ID as a reason. But I can see Ted's point that docs may need to be checked. As long as its up-front, at the right time and quick, then there is an argument for it. But IP isn't conclusive.

 

[lanidar]

But IP isn't conclusive

Simmo...my friend...
If the casino wants to protect themselves from players that are not permitted to play at their casino...
then check the IP...
call the player....
or what ever they need to do short of asking for my personal info.
This is how I feel.

 

[Sodax77]

Well... i know, that e.g. Scandinavian countries use different id-system, than many other countries. Quite high standards here.

But anyway, is those casinos who don't ask any id-proof from me, stupid or what?

Yes, those casinos have good reputation, so maybe they trust players... and i think, they pay (if everything seems right in their databse) because they know, that you come back!!!

Or what you think? If Casino X pay you after 3 months and after 2400 excuses and after you sent 50 times your fax back form, or other ID-proofs! Or maybe they don't pay at all...because you make some weird mistake in their rules. Do you play there again?

While Casino Z pay you in few hours, or minutes, and don't ask any ID's, because their databse tell that everything is ok (or they accept your ID in few hours, because everything seems ok), do you play there again?

I choose Casino Z

Ok, like i say, that's why i ask all possible questions before i deposit to new casino... So i avoid any confuse, etc.

Btw, many player don't contact new casino, don't ask anything, or don't care... they just deposit.... and they contact to casino, after they have problems with withdraws, etc...

 

[nafanny29]

With regard to IP address I believe anyone using AOL even from the UK has a USA IP address that changes everytime you log on (I think).

This would make checking IP addresses useless.

I still think the ECash PINS that BM and crypto send out go a long way in stopping fraud and I have never been asked for ID by one of their casinos

 

[lanidar]

With regard to IP address I believe anyone using AOL even from the UK has a USA IP address that changes everytime you log on (I think).

That may very well be. But, I've encountered another time when my IP showed I was from Europe and, as I said I'm in New Jersey.
I don't have all the answers.
As I mentioned in a previous post...This is MY opinion and this is how I feel.

 

[Sodax77]

With regard to IP address I believe anyone using AOL even from the UK has a USA IP address that changes everytime you log on (I think).

This would make checking IP addresses useless.

Yes anyone (including: Casinos, Neteller, whoever) can check your IP whenever they want, like i can check different IP's as well.

And yes many people don't use dynamic IP, so they get new IP-address, after they reboot computer/change manually their IP-address/etc.

But example Casinomeister see my IP and ISP, after every post,
But if i want, i can use some proxy-server/program, or No-IP-service (like proxy) and hide my real IP/ISP.

But many basic user don't try to hide or change their real IP or/and ISP.

Actually i don't know much about IP and ISP, but sometimes i use my firewall BackTrace-funtion, when my firewall alert me.

I still think the ECash PINS that BM and crypto send out go a long way in stopping fraud and I have never been asked for ID by one of their casinos

I agree this.

 

[Petunia]

".. they are so concerned about security...then they should go through the trouble of checking the IP"

... and to add to everything everyone else had to say about ip's. If you use a proxy (like most isp's do) you will find that you can actually make the mistake of banning a player because they use the same ISP and their IP looks the same.

Also, would us as players not be thoroughly PEEVED (the milder version of POFF) if you find that your family member decided to borrow money from your casino account, and cash out without having to show ID. WHO are you going to blame then?

It is difficult, on both sides. I like the idea of keeping a record of ID's. Fraud is everywhere, from both sides. There are no perfect systems, and as the old saying goes.................
YOu cannot please everyone!

 

[Ed Ware]

Interesting topic going here. I hope I can be of some assistance!

Of course I cannot speak on behalf of other Casinos, but I can tell you that at 32Red each and every new account opened is reviewed here by a real live person, always within a couple of hours. Not only does this serve to authenticate players, but it's also the first step in a process that enables us to form a relationship with our players, and in part helping us to deliver the type of service we believe people are looking for.

We conduct a number of checks both manually and with the use of software. High up on the list of checks is the location of the player which we do using fairly sophisticated technology looking at IP information. At the moment, a player joining and identified as having a US IP address will be informed of our current policy and have their account closed (and any funds returned).

There are number of other tools at every Internet company's disposal which can be used to verify the identity and location of a potential customer. We set the bar quite high so that those players who we know are who they say they are can benefit from a streamlined service with no hiccups (like ID requests).

Away from players with electronic wallets (such as Neteller), we benefit from a very secure and informative card processing gateway. This is thanks to TrustMarque providing our payments solutions in tandem with our card processors, BarclayCard. Whilst helping us to guard against the unfortunate threat of the criminal element on the Internet, more importantly it allows us to pay our players quickly, without hassle, and in unlimited amounts to any type of card (local banking regulations permitting).

As a footnote, I would add that we have taken steps to identify ourselves to our players. We have done this for a number of obvious reasons, not least of which is that if we expect you to provide a level of detail about yourself when signing up then surely we should do the same as a mark of mutual respect?

Hopefully this is a helpful contribution to the current discussion.

Regards to all

Ed Ware
32Red

 

[padanian]

Interesting topic going here. I hope I can be of some assistance!

Of course I cannot speak on behalf of other Casinos, but I can tell you that at 32Red each and every new account opened is reviewed here by a real live person, always within a couple of hours. Not only does this serve to authenticate players, but it's also the first step in a process that enables us to form a relationship with our players, and in part helping us to deliver the type of service we believe people are looking for.

We conduct a number of checks both manually and with the use of software. High up on the list of checks is the location of the player which we do using fairly sophisticated technology looking at IP information. At the moment, a player joining and identified as having a US IP address will be informed of our current policy and have their account closed (and any funds returned).

There are number of other tools at every Internet company's disposal which can be used to verify the identity and location of a potential customer. We set the bar quite high so that those players who we know are who they say they are can benefit from a streamlined service with no hiccups (like ID requests).

Away from players with electronic wallets (such as Neteller), we benefit from a very secure and informative card processing gateway. This is thanks to TrustMarque providing our payments solutions in tandem with our card processors, BarclayCard. Whilst helping us to guard against the unfortunate threat of the criminal element on the Internet, more importantly it allows us to pay our players quickly, without hassle, and in unlimited amounts to any type of card (local banking regulations permitting).

As a footnote, I would add that we have taken steps to identify ourselves to our players. We have done this for a number of obvious reasons, not least of which is that if we expect you to provide a level of detail about yourself when signing up then surely we should do the same as a mark of mutual respect?

Hopefully this is a helpful contribution to the current discussion.

Regards to all

Ed Ware
32Red

For sure 32Red is the casino that offers the greataest service around.
Concerning IP, I would like to share my experience. I live in Ireland but am a resident of Italy. So the most of the times I play using an IP that is not compatible with my registration details. Some casinos do not care, while other ones just lock your account with no explanation (and if this happens I just delete them). 32Red had a very great approach in this issue:they sent a kind mail ansking for the reason of this, I replied and everything was ok for the both of us. Not a very special thing, just logical.
They should be followed like an example in the industry.

 

[Petunia]

Interesting topic going here. I hope I can be of some assistance!

Of course I cannot speak on behalf of other Casinos, ...

We conduct a number of checks both manually and with the use of software. High up on the list of checks is the location of the player which we do using fairly sophisticated technology looking at IP information.

There are number of other tools at every Internet company's disposal which can be used to verify the identity and location of a potential customer. We set the bar quite high so that those players who we know are who they say they are can benefit from a streamlined service with no hiccups (like ID requests).



Dear Ed,
I for one am very happy to hear that you are making such effort. I don't know much about your casino, or the operations of it but I do want to ask a few things of you directly.(hehe.. sorry, ex journo here.... !! *grin*)

1) Are you saying that all casino companies have the possible means and ability to check these things beforehand and not make the players jump through hoops?
2) Do you think you will be able to keep up with this 'one on one' process once you open your doors to the US players? (Article posted in Industry section)
3) What exactly are you checking?
4) Is there a secret that you can actually post to the other casinos... like
"The customer is always right" Principle? *grinning*
5) What is your personal phylosophy on service?

Truly, don't feel you HAVE to answer... sometimes I just CANNOT help myself! *sigh*

 

[nafanny29]

For sure 32Red is the casino that offers the greataest service around.
Concerning IP, I would like to share my experience. I live in Ireland but am a resident of Italy. So the most of the times I play using an IP that is not compatible with my registration details. Some casinos do not care, while other ones just lock your account with no explanation (and if this happens I just delete them). 32Red had a very great approach in this issue:they sent a kind mail ansking for the reason of this, I replied and everything was ok for the both of us. Not a very special thing, just logical.
They should be followed like an example in the industry.

I use AOL and my IP address changes every time I log on but AOL always uses a USA IP address yet I have never had any casino query my IP ever and I live in UK!!

I dont think IP address is very improtant in fraud detection but I guess it can help when a casino suspects someone or finds other anomalies with a players account.

 

[Simmo!]

We conduct a number of checks both manually and with the use of software. High up on the list of checks is the location of the player which we do using fairly sophisticated technology looking at IP information. At the moment, a player joining and identified as having a US IP address will be informed of our current policy and have their account closed (and any funds returned).

Thanks Ed. I'm surprised that IP plays such an important part to be honest. Anonymous proxy servers are rife and i would have thought that alone would ensure further checks are necessary.

Using mobile telphony strikes me as an obvious one. Were a casino to text a message to the new player's mobile that required them to respond (say with their account ID), this would a) ensure they were who they said they were and b) were where they said they were - the cellphone number could be traced to a country after all. A mate of mine provides a reduced-rate bulk-text service like this to a number of businesses (text alerts, text-backs etc) and it just seems to make sense.

Cheers

Simmo!

 

[Sodax77]

...Using mobile telphony strikes me as an obvious one. Were a casino to text a message to the new player's mobile that required them to respond (say with their account ID), this would a) ensure they were who they said they were and b) were where they said they were - the cellphone number could be traced to a country after all. A mate of mine provides a reduced-rate bulk-text service like this to a number of businesses (text alerts, text-backs etc) and it just seems to make sense.

Cheers

Simmo!

No.

My country code is +358, but i can take my mobile phone example to UK, Or US, so my mobile phone number still start +358, but i pay bills to Finland
(almost all new mobile phone models support 900/1800, 1900, etc standards)

 

[Simmo!]

No.

My country code is +358, but i can take my mobile phone example to UK, Or US, so my mobile phone number still start +358, but i pay bills to Finland
(almost all new mobile phone models support 900/1800, 1900, etc standards)

But you'd still be a Finnish resident "visiting" the US wouldn't you? The US authorities can't stop you connecting from your laptop via your Finnish ISP to the web. IP would be Finnish even though you are in currently in the US.

I guess the question here is: would a casino be breaking the law allowing one of their legitimate authorised players play at the casino from inside a restricted territory while abroad?

If the answer is "yes", then telephony is not the answer. If the answer is "no", then it could be.

 

[Sodax77]

....Fraud is everywhere, from both sides. There are no perfect systems, and as the old saying goes.................
YOu cannot please everyone!

Yes,

That's why you have to write/know/show your
user name/password/PIN/ID's/etc
(examples: )
-When you logged Here (forum)
-When you logged to your E-mail service
-When you logged in to your Casino account
-When you use ATM-machine
-When you logged in to NETeller account
-When you transfer money via NETeller
-When you open your Mobile Phone
-When you close your home security system
-When you logged in to your Win XP (admin)
etc...
etc...



edit: of course you can use "remember my user name", "Password", etc with your own risk (i.e when you logged in to your casino account)

 

[Petunia]

SodaX,

I had to give my bank manager everything short of a urine and DNA sample to GET MY money, MY SALARY that I WORKED for out of HIS bank.....


it is called *LIFE*

 

[Sodax77]

But you'd still be a Finnish resident "visiting" the US wouldn't you?...

Yes, but... about Mobile phone...

I think, if i take my mobile phone to (example) US, then i roaming via some US phone company, and this US company get money from my Finnish phone company.

 

[Sodax77]

SodaX,

...and DNA sample

Is this joke?

Yes or no... our laws deny this.

Maybe soon online casinos need our DNA samples

 

[Ed Ware]

Padanian

Thanks for sharing your experience with 32Red and I am glad we did deliver the type of support we are aiming for.

Petunia

Thanks for your feedback and questions! Firstly, I should say that as a woman living in London I am depressed that you haven't heard of 32Red!! Our Marketing Department is in for a hard time, LOL!

Thanks for giving me an "out", but your questions very much deserve a response....

1. No, I wouldn't go that far but some companies have an undoubted advantage over others because they have excellent credentials and are able to form partnerships with helpful organisations like the Institutional Banks (who can help merchants with security issues). I am glad to say that this group includes 32Red, thus allowing us to remove so-called "hoops". Petunia, if you are in the UK and have a UK bank account, then you shouldn't be subject to your casino making things difficult for you, and I hope they are not.

2. Short answer is yes. We've provided a good level of support in the past to American players and we will do so again IF we re-open our doors to US players.

3. I am going to be difficult on this one (as you may expect!). I consider some of the processes we undertake to be of a competitive nature and so I cannot spell out what they are. I imagine they are not impossible to guess with some knowledge of resources and requirements.

4. LOL. All I can say is that a search for 32Red on this forum and perhaps at WOL will yield plenty of evidence from genuine players making unsolicited remarks and comments about our service.

5. What an invitation to employ some clichs! Seriously, I'd start with the following but could go on ad infinitum:

--treat others how you would expect to be treated yourself

--offer fair and reliable games

--if a player has asked to be paid, then pay them immediately and don't keep them hanging on for days on end!

--a reported problem from a player may not be your fault (it may not actually exist), but take responsibility for it so the customer knows it is being dealt with. And deal with it!

I'll stop there. Thanks for the opportunity to answer your excellent questions.

Nafanny29

Good point. AOL does cause a number of issues because of the US IP thing. However, if you are playing with the right UK Casinos (and I imagine you are), then they can easily overcome this and no doubt have.

Cheers Simmo

I think for the time being an IP address look-up will be at least the first port of call. As I mentioned earlier, there are other tools at our disposal which we frequently use when a player's profile contains particular aspects.

Re using SMS, that's an interesting spin on something often looked at purely from a marketing perspective. If you don't mind Simmo, I am going to float this past our Security Manager. Nice one!

As ever an enlightening and thought provoking exchange of views. Thanks for listening.

Cheers

Ed Ware
32Red