Open letter to FL, Prove you're not a ROGUE!!!

[Nanny Rose]

FL are without doubt the newest rogues on the block. IMO they should be immediately moved to the rogues section. They have a policy of deliberately misleading customers in order to STEAL back bonuses that they give. They may be the best of the rogues, but rogues they are.

As said in a previous post by somebody else, they are taking the "insurance company" approach. If they take back bonuses wrongly, many people won't complain, thus helping the FL bottom line. This is not staff training, do me a favour! It's deliberate theft. If any other casino group behaved how they were behaving they would be struggling for business very quickly. However FL group were one of the best, and so have a lot more goodwill left to erode before they go out of business. Trust me, it wont take long though unless they make a U-Turn and sort this mess out.

Their new terms are there to DELIBERATELY MISLEAD players. They are set up to aid FL in their dishonest theft of money given to new customers who have given FL, in good faith, a fair shot at getting their money. The policy of taking all bonuses back from customers who fall (however) short of the w/r's is good short term business sense for FL. It's a shame FL management didn't get any relationship marketing lessons when they go their jobs there.

Not only do they STEAL these bonuses back from customers, but they make the terms so misleading, that for the average joe (these are the customers FL needs the most) they are very difficult to understand. Mistakes are often made by people. That's human nature. We all know FL makes them aplenty. The lucky few who do complain get their money back. When players make a mistake they are rewarded with having the money offered to them taken away. Is that right? NO. How about this for an example.

Say you stay in a nice Las Vegas hotel. The staff tell you if you wager so much and deposit so much, they'll comp you a nice plush suite while you stay. You think great, i like this place. You deposit the money, make your bets, and have a nice stay in your lovely suite. In the middle of the night, the hotel management come in your room, wake you up, and boot you out, because you wagered $50 less than you had to according to the terms you signed up to.

FL-Would that be right?

Is this your policy?

Or is it better to politely inform the customer in the morning that they were $50 short of the required wagers, and apologise for not making your terms clear and understandable to them. It's not like the customer was $1000's short. IT'S OBVIOUS THE REASON THE WAGER REQUIREMENT WAS NOT MET WAS THAT IT WAS NOT EXPLAINED PROPERLY. That should be your responsibility if you are a reputable outfit. If you're not, then you'll get away with it, but trust me you will not be endearing yourself to the hearts of the payers community.

Get your terms CLEAR, CONCISE, and HONEST.

Don't cheat players, and treat them with the respect and trust that they show to you.

Train your staff to understand the terms, because if your staff can't get it right how the hell can you expect players to get it. GET IT?????

Get rid of your terms stating that bonuses are removed if requirements are not met. It may be legal, but its moral THEFT.

You've already got into trouble with the UK Advertising Standards Authority once. If anyone reading this gets any confusing/misleading emails from FL, complain here http://www.asa.org.uk/index.asp
We all get their misleading spam. Maybe if we all start doing something about it, they'll finally get the message.


SO FL, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

PS
I'd like to say that this is not a gripe because i've been caught out. Being a regular casino player i worked it out, and made sure that i didn't get caught out. It just makes me sick to hear about so many people having what is rightfully theirs STOLEN, and watching FL make a few pathetic excuses for what is going on. They know exactly what they are doing. They are ROGUES.

[clj7221]

Great Post. I have had nothing but problems with Fortune Lounge. They should be in the ROGUE section.

[Catwoman]

If you've seen my thread in the complaints forum you'll know what my vote is.

I really don't know how they can be anything but rogues - to me alone they've:

1) Removed money from my cashins without telling me.

2) Lied that the money was returned to my casino accounts when it wasn't.

3) Posted on this forum that the money was removed because I hadn't met wagering requirements from bonuses received - again another lie, I'd clearly lost everything and my balance had reverted to zero.

I agree - Bryan, get them in the Rogues section.

[jpm]

That was one hell of a first post!

I would like to add that one way to avoid confusion would be for the casino to send an email to the player when they add the bonus to their account. Inform them that the bonus has been credited as well as how much wagering is required prior to cashin, as well as a reminder of what games don't count. This should be fairly easy to do with a form letter and just a few blanks to fill in for amounts. It may be a little bit of work up front, but should save alot of CSR work in the end trying to solve these complaints.

[Nanny Rose]

I was hoping for a few more votes in the poll. I think its right to have a poll to guage public feelings about the situation. Come on people, make a vote! It doesn't matter what you vote for, and i'm sure many people will vote on FL's side too (after all they were one of the best casino groups out there for years). If lots of us vote, it will help FL get an idea of what players feel is happening at the moment. I'm not trying to make a personal crusade against them, but i think they should be made to realise whats going on.

I'm sure at the minute FL's bottom line is up because they will have saved so much money in bonuses. That means that the occassional slating on a few big public forums is a cost than can be afforded, because the average Joe is getting caught out, and losing even more money than he would by splitting tens and doubling on twelves. What they dont realise is that the "ripple effect" is pretty slow, and all those players coming through on the 1000's of smaller forums aren't hearing about the problems and risks involved in playing at FL casinos. That's the thing IMO. It's not that many of us here (although still a few) that are having problems. It's all the others that dont know about such a great resource as the casinomeister WOL etc! That ripple will eventually reach them though, and that will spell the death knell for the FL group, and will become a huge problem for the industry in general.

I believe that FL need to have an example made of them. If we can "show them the light" and persuade them with honest reasoning that they have made a huge mistake, it will benefit all -players and casino opeartors alike. I bet Belle Rock Gamig are laughing all the way to the bank at the minute. If FL get away with treating players so shabbily many others will follow suit.

Those here at Casiomeister and WOL are mainly the most experienced and knowledgeable players in the community. It is up to us to make a stand, not just for us, but for all the players who are getting scammed by the warren cloud's and many other rogues in this industry.

So come on people-VOTE!!!!!!
And come on FL-Please Respond!!

[caruso]

Casinos have rules for a reason. If players cannot follow those rules or are otherwise literacy-challenged they should NOT be gambling online, or they should at least be boning up on those literacy skills first.

I've played at the Fortune Lounge group several times a week, most weeks for the last three years. The only small inconvenience I once suffered was being asked for ID documents. Other than that, I've breezed through - and I rarely bother to keep up to date with the T & C. Though not a fan of Microgaming in principle, I do like this group. If I were a new player, I would be a bit discouraged by that "only 20% blackjack" rule on the sign up promo. Other than that, based on my own experience, I highly recommend them.

[Clayman]

Well, I voted #3.
It seems to me from what I read their worst practice is not reversing the bonus amount back to the casino account when someone is short of WR's. I guess I imagine this is because this is what their computers are programmed to do. I thought they used to not confiscate the bonus when someone was short. It seemed like a by-product of a manual process of approving withdrawals. But I don't really know as I never had that problem that I can remember now. Personally, I'd prefer they reverse the entire cash-in amount if I'm short of WR's.
Do their new terms say they will confiscate a bonus and/or winnings when short of WR's? If so, I think it's a bad way to go about it. If the terms say that then all a player has to do, what I would do, is ask them before a cash-in if I have met the WR's.
I'd like to see FL directly address this issue. And I'd like to know how many people they may have done this to. It certainly does not seem fair to only credit back the "squeaky wheel", if that is what they are indeed doing.
On the other hand, it seems as if everyone who has had a complaint has ultimately had their problem resolved. No?

[jpm]

Part of the problem at least of late is that they changed their terms in mid-stream and didn't make it known to the players. Not even the VIP players (of which I am one). I was then bitten by the new rule when I did a cashin, after having met what I thought were the requirements, only to have part of my cashin reversed and a bonus removed. It would not have occurred to me to ask if I'd met the requirements, since I kept track and knew I'd exceeded them! I just didn't know that those were the old rules and the new rules required much more wagering than I'd done. Chad (or Wim) cleared it up promptly for me though, but it was still a bit frustrating.

I stand by my previous suggestion. Send the player an email as soon as a bonus is credited informing them exactly how much play is required and what games don't count.

[Dirk Diggler]

Casinos have rules for a reason. If players cannot follow those rules or are otherwise literacy-challenged they should NOT be gambling online, or they should at least be boning up on those literacy skills first.

I've played at the Fortune Lounge group several times a week, most weeks for the last three years. The only small inconvenience I once suffered was being asked for ID documents. Other than that, I've breezed through - and I rarely bother to keep up to date with the T & C. Though not a fan of Microgaming in principle, I do like this group. If I were a new player, I would be a bit discouraged by that "only 20% blackjack" rule on the sign up promo. Other than that, based on my own experience, I highly recommend them.

A couple of months ago I would have agreed but since they've taken 4 or 5 bonuses off me wrongly (I was a pltinum level VIP at the time but now I rarely play) - each time they have eventually credited it back but only after several emails when they've tried to tell me all sorts of bollox.

The same has happened to Catwoman by the looks of it, so how can you seriously say you would recomend them with all the problems people are having?

I certainly used to but now it has to be 32red and the Cryptologic casino's - excellent CS and they don't remove bonuses from your cashin's when they feel like it.

To me this whole afair is leaving Fortune Lounge's reputation in tatters - certainly to anyone who reads this board.

[clj7221]

I can't stand fortune lounge and 32 red casino. I played at 32 red casino once and that was the last time I would play there. I deposited 100 dollars and played the poker games. I kept loosing not one hand did I break even on or even have any winning hand. I switched poker games and the same thing. Out of all the casinos on line I had never played a casinos that every hand of poker, even different types of poker games did I ever keep on getting loosing hands. winning nothing and not even winning any part of the bet back. ALL WERE LOOSING HANDS!!
I would never play 32 red casino again.