RTG return to player percentages

[Wildfire7]

Sometimes not playing maximum lines, can be part of an overall strategy to stretch a smaller bankroll in the hope of hitting bonus rounds and free spins. But it is a very risky way to play.

There are some slots where you almost know that you are not going to hit the features for at least 100 spins, especially higher variance games such as Isis and Break da bank. So playing minimum lines for the first 100 or so lines can help low rollers. Providing they intend to switch back to maximum lines in time to catch the features.

With all the speculation that goes on regarding casinos fixing this and fixing that, you seldom here players saying that all the larger wins are on the high numbered lines, so as to kill off players who attempt only playing a few lines.

Playing only a few lines all the time is a bit like playing blackjack with all the picture cards removed from the deck. You might still get 21, but you are really playing with one arm tied behind your back!

Mike

[eu_lowroller]

If the contribution for RJs is included could this go further down to say 90% which is a very poor return

It would be nice, if i would have at least a 90% payout, but like i mentioned before, i had only a 70,5% payout from my $82.50 starting balance on only 20 cent bets and this really sucks!

[4 of a kind]

When is someone who actually knows what in the hell they are talking about going to visit this thread and enlighten us all?

For what it's worth, I thought this was a good idea to create a private thread where only top brass here could relay our concerns to certified technicians in the online casino world. They would then have no fear of being abused.

Wouldn't it nice to have a technician from all the online brands proudly standing up for their company, and explain away our serious concerns?

I would assume something like this could never happen, as we all know from experiences, they are not straight up in more ways then one.

If I was a proud owner of a software provider making millions, I would have all kinds of technicians clarifying everything in an attempt to push my product.

Something like this already not existing is proof enough for me there is a great deal to hide. After all I guess it would be hard for an RTG software provider to come on here explaining something to us, but on the other hand have no problems supplying rogue's the software they need to steal our money.



http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/337772-post23.html

[tombee]

Which slots were you playing, and how many lines selected?

I ask because your average bets per spin seem incredibly low:

April = 0.113 credits/spin
May-August 0.117 credits/spin
Sept-Dec 0.157 credits/spin

Total 0.122 credits/spin

So if you were playing Real Series slots you can't of played more than about half the lines and at minimum bets most of the time...

KK

Sorry, totally missed your post. You are right, most of the times I don't play max lines because of my small bankroll. However my thought is also that if I play half of the lines instead of all, I get more playtime and more playtime means more chance to hit the upward flow. The first session I believe had the smallest bets and also the best return, while the last session for example I upped bets to more lines then I normally do and the stats are also dropping because of smaller playtime and not getting that "upward" (it is never really upward) flow in the end.
The playthough is on several games, all real series slots. I know that if many were high variance it is not impossible to reach a smaller payout over just 40.000 spins, but I think this payout was very small.
Also I know that randoms are invloved and off course I never win with my small bets. However those should only account for, I believe, 1.5pct of the payout. So if a slot is set to 95%, I should get about 93.5pct in the long term. Although it is very possible to get less over 40.000 spins, I believe 85pct is a bit low for me to keep playing since I do not have that mucht money

[takethemoney]

I thought I could play fewer lines in fruit frenzy, infact I played 5c per line with only one line bet. I hit a bonus round and when in bonus round it gave me back all 25 lines. I thought I was onto something, but as it turns out the machine is tuned to know this and if you do this you will go way longer between bonus rounds making this peceived little secret advantage null. RTG is smarter than the government.

[nisosbar]

interesting post. I just made two large reversals in my account (each over 2K) and same thing happened with me. I've seen this before at other RTG casinos and know not to do this because somehow I believe the "account' was switched over to total loser. There were non-stop losing spins, no bonus rounds, etc.

i am very hesitant to deposit at a casino that does this because I believe they will try to get their money back (if you have a positive withdrawl history) in every future deposit you make with them. I saw this at intertops and therefore eventually closed the account. That's why you need to move around to different casinos because they pull this nonsense.

Yes, that's what I was just going to post. My general rule of thumb is, you need to set yourself a win limit, and when/if you reach it, cash out IMMEDIATELY, and move on ASAP to another casino. Do NOT continue playing at the casino where you won big.

This could just be superstitious nonsense, but I have also found that when you win big you end up losing big in subsequent play.

[nisosbar]

I also feel that some are not given a choice with the Real-Series slots. Why do we have to contribute to the JP? Isnt it possible to have non RJ versions of these slots which would also mean a higher RTP for players who dont feel they would be lucky to hit these and in return would be getting more playtime. True, the RJ will be building up slower but the players would be more loyal. You get really pissed off seeing your deposits go down the drain every 10-15 minutes of you depositing.

Ditto this.

[KasinoKing]

I thought I could play fewer lines in fruit frenzy, infact I played 5c per line with only one line bet. I hit a bonus round and when in bonus round it gave me back all 25 lines. I thought I was onto something, but as it turns out the machine is tuned to know this and if you do this you will go way longer between bonus rounds making this peceived little secret advantage null. RTG is smarter than the government.

This has been discussed before; the reason is, to get the bonus round you need 5 of-a-kind on a win-line, and not scatters as with most other slots.
Therefore if you play 25 lines you are 25 x more likely to get the bonus than if you play just 1 line.
This slot is totally fair in this respect, and there is NO advantage in playing less lines to try to hit the bonus.

KK

[DogBoy001]

Is it a trade secret to tell us how that is implemented? e.g. removing symbols etc and if these changes are applied per game or in every game. I know that the paytables themselves dont change so Im assuming its something else.

Heya,

It's not a trade secret per se, as typically all manufacturers that have several RTP settings function in the same manner (and in the B&M industry all manufacturers have multiple RTP settings available for different jurisdictions)

In most slots it takes only a very minor change to effect an RTP shift of several %.
Most often this is accomplished by 1, sometimes 2, changes to symbols on the reel strip, for example changing a higher paying symbol for a royal.

It is extremely unlikely that a change will involve a shift in the number of scatters or substitutes, so typically all feature hit rates are constant across RTP variants.
The reason for this is that adjusting scatters and substitutes will most often produce a change far in excess of the % required.

Length of reel strips is most often not adjusted.

Occasionally probability schedules used in pick features may be altered in favour of reel strip changes, or in conjunction to balance the RTP, and again the change can be minimal to accomplish a small RTP shift.
However, as most games have no form of pick feature, reel strip changes account for 90% of RTP variants.

Incidentally, I would like to ask Dogboy the rate of contibution for a bet to a JP. It should be fixed, I assume eg 0.5% - 1%. When playing at $0.2 per spin I notice that JP counter only moved once in about every 5 spins and if I were the only one playing that would mean a 1% contribution although I could be wrong.

The increment does not vary by bet, though the increment differs for games that have a single jackpot or minor/major (the newer slots). Total RTP including seed, as stated in the rules, does not exceed 1.5%.

The jackpot meter does not update instantly in real time, it does so over a short span. Exiting and returning to the game will show the meter's current level, which may differ by a few cents to that displayed while playing the game (or even by a few dollars according to bet size or numbers of players at the time)

I also feel that some are not given a choice with the Real-Series slots. Why do we have to contribute to the JP? Isnt it possible to have non RJ versions of these slots which would also mean a higher RTP for players who dont feel they would be lucky to hit these and in return would be getting more playtime. True, the RJ will be building up slower but the players would be more loyal. You get really pissed off seeing your deposits go down the drain every 10-15 minutes of you depositing.

I will raise the possibility of producing and implementing non-jackpot variants of existing games with RTG, or producing some future games that do not use a random jackpot.
No promises though, and even if we kicked off something of this type it would be a year before it was seen...there's a lot in the pipeline .

Woooof

[4 of a kind]

DogBoy001,

Someone mentioned in a previous post that you actually work for Real Time Gaming as a software programmer. I'm relatively new here and read many of your past posts, and yet was surprised when recently reading you worked for RTG. Hope you don't mind if I could ask you a few questions.

1) How long have you worked for them and exactly what is your job description?

2) Do you actually work from home or have to go to an office?

3) When you got hired by them did you have to sign any type of a confidentially document, or something of that order where you would risk your employment if you were to discuss openly anything more then common obvious knowledge?

4) If you didn't have to sign any types of sworn to secretive agreements mentioned above, do employees at different levels of employment at RTG have to sign any such paper work.

5) Once in a post a casino rep. here (CasinoJack) once mentioned you would have to sign such a document to work for an online casino. Is this required only for casino employees or also for software providers?

6) If in fact this agreement does exist do employees risk legal action against them if they talk?

7) Are you even allowed to discuss any such agreement?

8) If not at your level, can someone at a different level ever have the power to create and install some type of cheating program for personal gain similar to the Absolute Poker scandal that was exposed?

9) RTG supplies software for many honest casinos, yet on the other hand they also provide software for many of the known rogue casinos. Would you know their position on supplying the rogues, and why in fact they even do?

I certainly could go on with many more questions here, and hope these limited questions I ask are not construed as invation of privacy.

I would not ever ask you for anything or expect an answer if that would jeopardize your employment. If you don't respond I completely understand.