Bot stuff from Spear's thread

[greedygirl]

There's an absolute difference between autoplay offered by the casino software and a bot brought in by the player. Two very different things.

[deltoid]

"Bots" are next to impossible to actually prove. A "bot" can be programmed to look almost exactly like a human playing perfect strategy, which humans can do. Disallowing bots is akin to saying "we reserve the right at any time to accuse you of using software, and we will not, nor can we, prove that you are, but our decision is final."

The term is simply indefensible.

Other possible terms and conditions for being accredited:

Any and all terms and conditions that can be enforced by the software should be enforced by the software. EG - if only UK players are allowed to play in pound sterling, a perfectly fair term, then the sign up form should only permit UK players to select pound sterling. If a maximum bet size is allowed when playing with a bonus, and the software can be programmed to specify that maximum bet size, then the software must be utilized to do so.

All deposit and withdrawal options listed on the website must be available to players where those options are permitted by the payment processor. Online payment processors such as Neteller or Click2pay must support both deposit and withdrawal options if permitted by the payment processor. To simplify - all deposit and withdrawal options must be displayed correctly on the casino website and in the casino cashier.

The casino must inform the player of any changes to their account with regards to deposit and withdrawal limits, bonus eligibility, comp point rewards, and VIP status. This term obviously is more important when the casino downgrades the player. (Recent experience: once casino downgraded my comp rate to a fraction of what they were before without telling me. I wagered about 10k before noticing my comps were not accumulating like they used to. No notice from the casino. The next day I log to play at another casino, same software provider, and a notice popped up telling me that my VIP level had been upgraded. If one place can do it, so can the others!)

I'll try and think of other stuff, but so far the rules show quite promise!

[AussieDave]

There's an absolute difference between autoplay offered by the casino software and a bot brought in by the player. Two very different things.

I agree

But the casinos need to clearly state this in their T&C's. Otherwise a player is in void of any casino T&C's that specifically state that autoplay can not be used.

Example:

xxxhttp://www.casinoaction.com/help/termsconditions.asp

Bonus Account Terms and Conditions include:

11. If the casino deems that the autoplay feature has been used for the purpose of meeting bonus account wagering requirements, Casino Rewards reserves the right to void winnings.

This particular term used by Casino Action is voiding the MGS autoplay tool that is built into the Viper software.


Cheers
T

[greedygirl]

I agree

But the casinos need to clearly state this in their T&C's. Otherwise a player is in void of any casino T&C's that specifically state that autoplay can not be used.

Example:

xxxhttp://www.casinoaction.com/help/termsconditions.asp

Bonus Account Terms and Conditions include:

11. If the casino deems that the autoplay feature has been used for the purpose of meeting bonus account wagering requirements, Casino Rewards reserves the right to void winnings.

This particular term used by Casino Action is voiding the MGS autoplay tool that is built into the Viper software.


Cheers
T

Agree 100%. In the instance of this term, it is undeniably crap and should not be in place. I still see bots and software autoplay as apples and oranges...and both should be addressed as such. Yes to autoplay, no to bots.

[Rusty]

There's an absolute difference between autoplay offered by the casino software and a bot brought in by the player. Two very different things.

Nobody said they were the same but they are not completely different.
They both allow an automated game which is why I stated;
Autoplay is a form of bot.

Yes to autoplay, no to bots.

You can keep saying it but you need to address the arguments.
As it stands having bot play banned in T&C's just gives Casinos carte blanche to confiscate player winnings without any real evidence of bot play or that a bot (even if it could be proved) gained the player an unfair advantage.
I am sure you would get it much quicker if you had suffered as some posters here have in the past through this indefensible T&C and it doesn't help the industry any either.
Sorry GreedyGirl I don't understand why you would want to defend it.
Also sorry for the derail, so no more from me on this.

[aka23]

Really???

I'm having a rough time wrapping my head around this one and I've no doubt that the casinos and software providers will feel similarly. I've yet to understand anyone's reasoning on using a bot if not to cheat the system. Simply put, it's a computer to cheat a computer.

Seriously...can you honestly say that people use bots because they're too damned lazy to click their mouse? Sorry--can't agree on this one.

Most bot users do so for clearing bonus wagering, not gaining an edge on the house. I can understand a casino wanting to restrict players from using them. The problem comes when a casino denies a large win to a manual player because they think his speed of play /# of breaks/bet size/... resembles a bot.

[deltoid]

The thing with bots, as aka23 mentioned, is that casinos will make these bot play accusations, and you as a player CANNOT disprove them*. The casino can't prove that you used a bot, but they will say just the accusation of that warrants your winnings being voided. That's why the term is complete nonsense.

* Sure you could film yourself playing the session, and have it witnessed, and that would probably be enough in a court of law, but when's the last time you did that?

[deucebag]

"Bots" are next to impossible to actually prove. A "bot" can be programmed to look almost exactly like a human playing perfect strategy, which humans can do. Disallowing bots is akin to saying "we reserve the right at any time to accuse you of using software, and we will not, nor can we, prove that you are, but our decision is final."

The term is simply indefensible.

The big poker sites have advanced techniques to detect bot play, and I believe it can be done with a high degree of accuracy. In the case of poker I also think that anti-bot measures are crucial and most definitely in the interest of the player. So I would make an exception there.

[WagerWitch]

I am SOOOO against BOT playing it isn't even funny.

If it's autoplay used INSIDE THE CASINO SOFTWARE then fine.

But BOT playing is - in my humble opinion - upping your ante.

If you can't be bothered to be clicking and making your bets - and choosing wisely - and you're not even PRESENT playing....

Then get the HELL off of the game that I am on.

You're cheating, plain and simple.

If you don't want to admit it to yourself - fine.

But you're cheating if you use a bot that is NOT inside the casino software - AND YOU ARE THE REASON I AM NOT WINNING --- unless I get superbly lucky or something...

YOU ARE THE CHEATER - you are the reason that the odds are so stacked.

You have taken out the HUMAN ERROR - in the equation - and left all honest players in the dust.

WHY?

So you can make money.

You've given up on the CHANCE - and YOU Do NOT CARE about others - and you're a cheater if you use a bot.

My opinion only - and I don't care if you try to argue this - BOTS take out Human error.

Bots are not used by everyone - and those who use bots have an advantage that is UNFAIR.

They are NOT playing in the casino. They are trying to rake the casino.

Period.

Otherwise - WHY WOULD YOU USE THEM?

They are not in the spirit of gambling.

They are in the spirit of cheating. Getting over - finding an INHUMAN way to do the dirty work.

And if you use a bot - you're using something unfair to everyone else to your advantage - and you're a selfish cheater.

And that... Is... How WagerWitch feels about that.

/end rant

[Markus]

AND YOU ARE THE REASON I AM NOT WINNING

Bots are not used by everyone - and those who use bots have an advantage that is UNFAIR.

Unlike poker, in a casino the players do not play against each other but they are always play against the casino, therefore what you are claiming is absolutely untrue. You have always the same chance of winning regardless there are bot players or not.

YOU ARE THE CHEATER - you are the reason that the odds are so stacked.

Bot players don't affect the odds in any way.
If you play games with stacked odds then it's your fault. You have freedom to choose the game with a house edge you like. You can play slots with 5% house edge or you can play Blackjack with 0,09% - 0,5% house edge.

They are NOT playing in the casino. They are trying to rake the casino.

How can they rake the casino if there is still a house edge?