Shufflemaster machines being used to cheat? Patent 6651982, Computerized shuffels

[stockman27]

Just wanted to get some responses to this, I am a professional poker player & player very high stakes cash games. I have always thought the cards in a shufflemaster machine rolled off differently than a hand shuffle, I have recently found this patent specific to the deckmate shuffler used to shuffle cards in pokerrooms. It seems that the cards are not actually shuffled at all, but rather sorted in a desired order based on a computer program. The patent mentions capability of card recognition suit & rank which is sent to the microprocessor to shuffle the cards in order the casino wants. I also found a company called ameranth wireless which makes the software interface for the deckmate, it seems it called a pokermanagement program. Is this being used to deal either nonaction hands to keep players from going broker or being used to deal certain players better hands if the casino wants. You can open an account at freepatentsonline & download the full copy in PDF form full with illistrations & diagrams.

[julester]

Do most land casinos use this 'shufflemaster' software? I can be a little skeptical (sorry!) about possible hidden agendas in big first time posts such as this but if what you say is true, it most certainly warrants further investigation. I am not a poker player but many players only have the integrity of a casino's word to go on and that of their license (if you consider that to verify integrity). A betrayal of trust or anything other than crystal clear trading signifies a rogue casino.

In the UK, cigarette manufacturers are obliged to put health warnings on packs of cigarettes i.e "Smoking Kills". The customer can then take an informed view and it's their choice. I see no difference with casinos. As a slot player, I would probably accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. You are likely to lose your house before that happens". I wouldn't accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. Today. Tomorrow might be different. In fact, if we don't like you we will fleece you alive. We can do what we want, when we want. After we are fat with profits and cash coming out of our ears we may give you 15 free spins and 4 repeats….but we won’t let you cash out without a fight...You get the point.

[stockman27]

Most all casinos here use the shufflemaster to shuffle cards in pokerrooms. If you have read the patent description it will describe the capabilities of this machine. Shufflemaster claims that eventhough the patent allows for this that the current machines do not shuffle in this manner, but may in the future which is disturbing as well. I belive that some machines have been updated to include this technology, ameranth makes a software interface for the shufflemaster machine, hardware & software integration, why would they do this if the microprocessor in the machine were'nt using optical technology? So far they haven't responded to this part of my question. I've also emailed ameranth with these questions & yet to receive an answer.

Originally Posted by julester

Do most land casinos use this 'shufflemaster' software? I can be a little skeptical (sorry!) about possible hidden agendas in big first time posts such as this but if what you say is true, it most certainly warrants further investigation. I am not a poker player but many players only have the integrity of a casino's word to go on and that of their license (if you consider that to verify integrity). A betrayal of trust or anything other than crystal clear trading signifies a rogue casino.

In the UK, cigarette manufacturers are obliged to put health warnings on packs of cigarettes i.e "Smoking Kills". The customer can then take an informed view and it's their choice. I see no difference with casinos. As a slot player, I would probably accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. You are likely to lose your house before that happens". I wouldn't accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. Today. Tomorrow might be different. In fact, if we don't like you we will fleece you alive. We can do what we want, when we want. After we are fat with profits and cash coming out of our ears we may give you 15 free spins and 4 repeats….but we won’t let you cash out without a fight...You get the point.

[Alexishot69]

Been slightly sceptical of online poker and the "juiced" hands syndrome..However ive always thought that yes the cards<hands> are random BUT that they are pre-programmed hands million of them to come out in a random manner to make it such an exciting game which has become massive...in reality poker in live situations can become very tedious and boring after a while but that never ever happens online ..just my opinion...

[winbig]

Until recently, I always thought that the Prima network would never 'juice' hands to enhance the rake....

After only recently returning to the network, I now believe that to be false. In only ~100 hands of play, I saw a turned boat lose to a rivered straight flush as well as a nut flush lose to a rivered boat - both hands, how could you get away from them? Near impossible.

Needless to say, I'll stick to Stars from now on.

[stockman27]

All online sites are rigged, but not necessarily juiced hands, They mostly want to managed their player base, they do this by programming certain accounts to win or lose, good players are handicapped to keep them from breaking weak players. This keeps the most amount of players in the game for the long term so these sites can keep revenues up. Stars is rigged too. I use to be the biggest cash player on full tilt, they are all programmed & use hot bots

Originally Posted by winbig

Until recently, I always thought that the Prima network would never 'juice' hands to enhance the rake....

After only recently returning to the network, I now believe that to be false. In only ~100 hands of play, I saw a turned boat lose to a rivered straight flush as well as a nut flush lose to a rivered boat - both hands, how could you get away from them? Near impossible.

Needless to say, I'll stick to Stars from now on.

[winbig]

Originally Posted by stockman27

All online sites are rigged, but not necessarily juiced hands, They mostly want to managed their player base, they do this by programming certain accounts to win or lose, good players are handicapped to keep them from breaking weak players. This keeps the most amount of players in the game for the long term so these sites can keep revenues up. Stars is rigged too. I use to be the biggest cash player on full tilt, they are all programmed & use hot bots

Ahhh, joy, another conspiracy theory. They're hardly rigged, but I definitely wouldn't rule out 'juiced hands.'

People that think the cards are out and out rigged = players looking for an excuse for why they lose all of the time.

The only thing that made any sense in your post is the bot part. Not by the rooms themselves (Why would any non-networked room such as Stars risk millions of $ in rake, not to mention being boycotted by every poker player online, by running bots?), but by players that think they're going to get rich quick. They don't need to "rig" certain accounts just to increase revenue, they're going to get the rake no matter what, just by sheer volume.

IMO, they're better off by generating more rake with fewer deposits. That way, they're saving money on fees associated with increased deposits...especially when it comes to large deposits.

But anyways, if you want to cry rigged, just search through the forum for one of the many other "online poker is rigged" threads and read those. There's plenty.

The point is, you call yourself a professional, but yet you can't sweat it out when you're running bad, and cry "rigged" to justify your losses. This thread further proves that you think this conspiracy theory exists online and off. High limit or not, there's donks and whiners at every level of play.

Did I hit the nail on the head?

[stockman27]

Winbig

Hit the nail on the Head?? Hardly, I'm actually a very high stakes cash player & have one of the highest win rates of anyone in the country in the stakes I play, I'm also ranked top in the 20 - 50 in POY points at several magazines or point rating systems including bluff & cardplayer & I'm not even a tourny player, I play mainly cash games & I've read more than my fair share of the rigged post so I know which ones serve merit & which ones do not. Juiced hands? I'm sorry but they don't juice hands, serves no purpose since rake is maxed on most hands, They program accounts to a parody algorithm. They dont want anyone winning or losing a lot of money.
Good NL players would break weak players by multitabling & thus cut the supply of poker players that play at all the sites that have come up over the past several years.

Oh, & your elementary thought out why would they rig because they make so much money argument is so old. Come up with something more intelligent & thought out, weve all heard that crap before.

Originally Posted by winbig

Ahhh, joy, another conspiracy theory. They're hardly rigged, but I definitely wouldn't rule out 'juiced hands.'

People that think the cards are out and out rigged = players looking for an excuse for why they lose all of the time.

The only thing that made any sense in your post is the bot part. Not by the rooms themselves (Why would any non-networked room such as Stars risk millions of $ in rake, not to mention being boycotted by every poker player online, by running bots?), but by players that think they're going to get rich quick. They don't need to "rig" certain accounts just to increase revenue, they're going to get the rake no matter what, just by sheer volume.

IMO, they're better off by generating more rake with fewer deposits. That way, they're saving money on fees associated with increased deposits...especially when it comes to large deposits.

But anyways, if you want to cry rigged, just search through the forum for one of the many other "online poker is rigged" threads and read those. There's plenty.

The point is, you call yourself a professional, but yet you can't sweat it out when you're running bad, and cry "rigged" to justify your losses. This thread further proves that you think this conspiracy theory exists online and off. High limit or not, there's donks and whiners at every level of play.

Did I hit the nail on the head?

[winbig]

*yawn*

Proof?

[stockman27]

So do you troll the forums all the time? You happen to be up at 3am & notice that i make a post on this forum