Card Spike

[pokeraddict]

This master affiliate issue makes sense. If you look at anyone that promoted rakeback at CardSpike they all had the same bonus code and link. I thought it had more to do with it being a white label. I don't know if non rb affiliates used the same codes/links.

[Casino City]

This master affiliate issue makes sense.

Yes, this is a nice way to try to downplay the actual relationship. But when have you ever seen a master affiliate whose employee was the affiliate manager published on the operator website?

[mojo]

What I still don't understand if all of this is supposed to be on the up-an-up and there is no conflict of interest here according to Warren and Lou, then why did they not come out up front, in the beginning, when they first entered into this "management consulting agreement" with CardSpike and announce this relationship to the affiliate community ??

Well said. Perhaps if they did none of this would be happening right now. Also note that if anyone spoke up, they were banned.

We all just want some honest answers IMO. Thank you for asking this question RobWin.

[jetset]

Well, in a way they are just an affiliate of the affiliate program who thinks s/he can perform a better service for affiliates and become the main stop.

Sometimes Master affiliates provide much better support and work a lot more with affiliates than the actual program. At least that is the idea, to become a solution for operators that is much cheaper yet outperforms the in house program. (if there is one) The way to do that is to give affiliates a reason to prefer them.... and that would be better service.

I'm still trying to get my head around this apparently loose concept of 'Master Affiliate', especially in the CardSpike/EMG context, because it would seem to be an important element in the debate on conflict.

So....the CardSpike owners have some sort of practical deal with Cake Poker as the host network regarding the administration, record keeping, payments and number crunching aspects of CardSpike's affiliate relationships, right?

And EMG as the Master Affiliate is responsible for what? Affiliate relationships management? Marketing? Affiliate recruitment? Anything else?

And this sort of arrangement is more economical for CardSpike?

[mojo]

Jetset,

This bothers me, and maybe you could help explain it here. Absolute Slots appears to have the same deal.

From the GPWA profile:

Affiliate Program Management
Benjamin Whidden

Affiliate Manager
Native Language: English
Other Language: German
benjaminw@effectivemedia.com
Elliott R.

Affiliate Manager
elliott@absoluteslots.biz

Steve

Affiliate Manager
GPWA Member: AbsoluteSlots Affil.
steve@absoluteslots.biz

>> Join Absolute Slots Affiliate Program
>> Visit Absolute Slots Affiliate Program Forum

http://www.gpwa.org/affiliateprogram...te.asp?id=8093

I have found some understanding of Master Affiliates. The way I have learned is that it is basically the same as Affiliate Managers. Should you start an affiliate program under a 'Master Affiliate' you are responsable to your affilates for payment. No matter how you word it, you are an affiliate manager.

This is just bad bad bad.

Should lou decide to take this on, he would need to resign as a CAP/PAP owner. It would be like CM representing, say, Gambling Wages (in respect to CS) No?

[pokeraddict]

So....the CardSpike owners have some sort of practical deal with Cake Poker as the host network

This was almost certainly a micro skin/white label licensed by Jazette. I can't see why a direct licensed site would have used the software, support and processing of Jazette but have a license from Cake.

[jetset]

@pokeraddict.

I think you're probably right, John - I've just looked back at the wording of Warren Jolly's post at Post 71, and he claims:

"Payments to players and affiliates were performed by Cardspike.com in conjuction with the software supplier. Greg, Peter and EMG were not responsible for issuing payments or any delays that DID occur."

Therefore it looks as if Jazette not only supplies the Cake Poker network with software, but also with affiliate processing and payments.

[jetset]

@Mojo

That's [Absolute Slots] an interesting new element here on which you might care to expand if you have further information to bring this thread up to speed.

I noted that in Lou Fabiano's CAP vid that an [at that stage unspecified] online casino was mentioned, along with a denial of involvement (see Post 69 and poster cowboy's interesting submission of three videos from APCW, CAP and CAP (Fabiano) which preceded it.)

That registration of Benjamin Whidden's seems to unequivocally extend the EMG business to the affiliate management of Absolute Slots, and it would be interesting to learn more about it.

[dominique]

I'm still trying to get my head around this apparently loose concept of 'Master Affiliate', especially in the CardSpike/EMG context, because it would seem to be an important element in the debate on conflict.

So....the CardSpike owners have some sort of practical deal with Cake Poker as the host network regarding the administration, record keeping, payments and number crunching aspects of CardSpike's affiliate relationships, right?

And EMG as the Master Affiliate is responsible for what? Affiliate relationships management? Marketing? Affiliate recruitment? Anything else?

And this sort of arrangement is more economical for CardSpike?

I have absolutely no idea how this relates to card spike. I don't know anything about that situation other than the speculations I read on forums.

I do understand the master affiliate concept and just wanted to share the facts about it.

Master affiliates are much more economical than employed managers simply because they work for free unless they produce results (just like affiliates, which they are) while managers get a base salary no matter what. Master affiliates also cannot use operator resources the way managers can. So the operator saves money.

Master affiliates do what all affiliates do - build websites and recruit. But, instead of just recruiting and then walking away, they continue to provide support, much like many rakeback affiliates and some casino affiliates do. The idea is that the master affiliate has a personal interest in the success of his/her recruits - if the new affiliates do well, the master affiliate does well. So the premise is that the master affiliate provides a better service to affiliates. Perhaps by helping with the webmaster aspects and such, adapting promos to the demographics on a particular affiliate site and such things that a non-affiliate may not even know about.

So there are definite advantages to that concept. There are also cons of course, which is why most operators do employ managers and most affiliates have no desire to become a master affiliate.

In the "real world" the concepts can be compared to a sales force that is contracted and paid solely comissions versus a salesforce that is employed with a base salary and employment benefits.

Anyway, I am not one for speculations so I will just chime in when I have actual facts to contribute. I have no idea how card spike in specific did business.

[Casino City]

@Mojo

That's [Absolute Slots] an interesting new element here on which you might care to expand if you have further information to bring this thread up to speed.

I've just started a thread on this topic on the GPWA website - you can see it here: www.gpwa.org/forum/absolute-slots-effective-media-group-178579.html. Also, Absolute Slots will also be part of the subject matter covered in the APCW Perspectives video to be released tomorrow.

Bottom line is that Warren and Lou are also, through Effective Media Group, involved in Absolute Slots. However, I believe this program is reputable, so there are not the same issues about the owners of CAP being involved in a rogue operation. But there are still the conflicts of interest, and lack of transparency. It is interesting to note that Affiliate Media appears to be only as transparent as they are forced to be by the discoveries of others.