Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[winbig]

You just have to shop around...I agree 15% is on the high end, but I've heard of a few that do pay good...I think ~12% is more common and easier to find.

[maaster]

whatever the percentages

fact of the matter is: many more people are showing up supporting the story

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4496

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by mrracetrack

My thoughts on this:

I've always been a believer in the adage that "There are always two sides to every story"...

That said... I would hope that Cipher responds to these allegations... but until he does so... the aggrieved person making these accusations (Tim) has presented a very compelling and believable posting of his dealings with Cipher. Since other "investors" are similarly involved with this... I would hope that some of them come forward and detail their experiences with Cipher also.

Excellent post MrR. While it's true that anyone can post anything on a forum, fact or fiction...Westland Bowl's post is indeed very believable. And he'd have to be one of the biggest fruitcakes of all time to post a story like that without it being based for the most part in fact. I also would like to hear Cipher's side, though I doubt that will happen. And any other investors may still be holding out hope that they may yet see their money.

The things in WB's post that ring truest to me are the ongoing excuses for the delays in payment, and then when WB finally gets upset, he's met with indignation and contempt. Like how dare he have the nerve to question where in the hell his money is? I've been there Westland Bowl, you're not alone. Although in my case it was a very tiny amount of money in comparison. Same shit, different pile that's all...it still all smells the same. (FTR, my instance didn't involve Cipher).

WB, does this sound familiar? You start out with full confidence in the person, then as the excuses and delays mount up, you start to hear a tiny little voice inside your head, telling you what a fool you've been? This goes on for a while, with you flip-flopping back and forth....he wouldn't screw me over, I've been screwed, he wouldn't screw me over would he? And so on. By the time you've gotten the tenth empty promise of payment, you know you've been screwed and you absolutely hate yourself and wonder how you could have been so naive as to trust this person. About this time, you're starting to feel a bit sick about the whole thing, but you still wanna BELIEVE. And you don't even want to tell your friends about it, because you almost feel ashamed for being so naive. Then when you get that email that tries to turn the table on you and make you feel like you're the one who has done something wrong, you're about ready to rip someone's throat out. If this sums it up for you, I've been there.

To those of you who are wondering how someone could be gullible/naive enough to send someone 20K for a gambling investment, keep in mind that some people just want to believe, especially if they are looking for a quick fix to their financial problems. Some people are just more trusting by nature, and have a hard time believing that anyone could rip them off. They believe that people are basically decent (which I do think they are). It also sounds like WB did some homework before getting himself into this. I'd like to know where the people who vouched for Cipher are now? If they were also "investors", what state are their accounts (for lack of a better term) in now? Is there anyone out there who has actually received any profits from this..or even their original sum back?

I can't help it but this whole thing makes me think of the Jackpot Factory mess. Offering a quick fix to problems, financial or otherwise. It's why I got so upset about the whole thing. There were people back then who said that no one would ever be silly or naive enough to actually fall for any of that, that no one could really think that gambling could fix their problems. Well, IF (and I repeat if) Westland Bowl's story is accurate, he is living proof that people will indeed believe what they want to believe...and will look for a magic potion that will cure their ails.

WB, I'm very sorry this happened to you. Lesson learned I hope, albeit a very expensive one. If any part of this has been fabricated on your part, shame on you for trying to fool us all. But if it is factual and true, then Cipher, double shame on you.

[reda]

i have read your story in full and feel for you . i too am sorry about your mom.
all in all i hope you get some kind of satisfaction in this matter.

[reda]

i think i posted this in the wrong place the first time so im replying again.
i feel for you and hope you get some sort of satisfaction on your situation.'
i am sorry about your mom.

[Random#rs]

Originally Posted by winbig

You're misunderstanding my post. If the state max (in a civil suit) is $5k where he's at, that's the only thing he'll get back, not a penny more.

This is true in small claims court. You may may remember OJ Simpson was found liable for two murders in Civil court for some 35 million.

Originally Posted by mikepipe

We should NOT use this forum as a tribunal, nor make a witch hunt.I know that Westland has NOT the intention to something like that, but the thread can get momentum that is hardly to control.

This is debatable (Cipher used the forums for his purpose). I believe it is appropriate for public exposure here and in the other Forums. Further more, I would ask Cipher to get his butt out here and show his side. I would warn him not to try and run us (the world, the user base of this board, etc.) around in gobly-gook explanations like he did with WB for months.

[Pinababy69]

Could someone point me in the direction of Cipher's website/forum? Afraid to say that I am NOT a blackjack player. But I would like to educate myself a bit more on what exactly he's offering to people. Thanks.

[Random#rs]

http://www.cipherblackjack.com/

[Westland Bowl]

Originally Posted by Pinababy69

Could someone point me in the direction of Cipher's website/forum? Afraid to say that I am NOT a blackjack player. But I would like to educate myself a bit more on what exactly he's offering to people. Thanks.

Cipher has changed his websites to where the Gambling Edge and Cipher Blackjack websites seemed to have merged somewhat. You will have to use the Wayback Machine to read what he had on Cipherblackjack.com in the past.

BTW, Pinababy69 hit the nail on the head when she pm'd me a couple of days ago saying she suspected that it was Cipher I was alluding to in the thread "Big Story of the Year?".

[winbig]

Will she receive a prize??