Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[Westland Bowl]

The agreement also claims "all play will originate from the UK", thus recent events in the US should have no impact other than delays in eWallet withdrawals from around 18th Jan.
Play, and location in, the UK does indeed mean that if Bruse can show the scheme was a gambling syndicate (such as a lottery pool, or horse betting scheme), thenunder UK law you are stuffed - gambling debt is not enforceable. IF the scheme was NOT marketed as a gambling pool, but a straight forward return on deposit (say, income based on licencing the software to others), then several laws have been broken, most importantly Bruce has not got FSA approval to take client deposits or run an investment fund, and criminal fraud may have taken place. It may be possible to effect a recovery from personal assets (house, car etc).

I wondered about that "originate from the UK" phrase myself. Bruce is located in California, so how could his blackjack play originate in UK??? If he could do that, then, damn, I'd like to do that too so that I won't be restricted by Neteller and can play in whatever online casinos I want. But believe me, I have no illusions anymore about my chances of recovering any money.

[GemG7]

I hate to read about crap like this. I would too like to hear Cipher's side of the story. He was at the forum yesterday so he surely knows about this thread.

[silkprint]

I am sorry about your mom Westland.

[mikepipe]

The whole story has very sad aspects and i guess, there will be nothing that deserves to be called "happy end".
anyway:
We should NOT use this forum as a tribunal, nor make a witch hunt.
I know that Westland has NOT the intention to something like that, but the thread can get momentum that is hardly to control.

[winbig]

If it comes to a lawsuit, what is the limits for a small claims suit in your state? I sure hope it's > $20k for where you're at. Most are $5k or so


Good luck, and thanks for the warning.

[aodat2]

If it comes to a lawsuit, what is the limits for a small claims suit in your state? I sure hope it's > $20k for where you're at. Most are $5k or so


Good luck, and thanks for the warning.

winbig, if it really takes $5k to get back the $20k, I'd definitely do it. This is not only because I want the money back (if it was mine) but because I want to teach him a lesson NEVER to cheat people like that and also to stop him from ever doing things like that ever again!

WB, I'm not an extremely wealthy person but I am sure I could spare $50 or so to aid in your cause of a lawsuit against him. I'm very sure that members on this forum would be more than happy to support you on your lawsuit as well. (I hope)

[winbig]

winbig, if it really takes $5k to get back the $20k

You're misunderstanding my post. If the state max (in a civil suit) is $5k where he's at, that's the only thing he'll get back, not a penny more.

If he can get it tried in a criminal court, the judge can order him (Cipher) to pay full restitution.

[dealer wins]

I am just shocked that someone would send $20000 yes Twenty Thousand Dollars to let someone else play online blackjack with.

The real giveaway that its all a pile of bs is the return of 15% per month.

Im quite new to online gaming but I know that if there is a flaw in the software that enables a player to win consistently he would not need staking, and would not tell ANYONE. Maybe he would need others to set up different accounts to avoid too much heat on one winning account but thats it.

Greed v Common sense.

In this case it sounds like greed won (and lost in the end)

Sad story that joins the 1000s of others that have fallen for various internet scams.

[winbig]

The real giveaway that its all a pile of bs is the return of 15% per month.

Especially since most mutual funds will only give you a return of 15% per year.

[me_and_ed]

Especially since most mutual funds will only give you a return of 15% per year.

Jeez, let me know where I can find ones that are paying that, mine are all around 8.