Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[Casinomeister]

Also interesting...has anyone noticed... Bryan, CM has not elected to comment in this thread, perhaps not wishing to get entangled?

Tomorrow is my first day of work after being absent (from here) last week.

To echo Simmos! comment - this thread will spiral into a load of crap (and be upgraded to closed) if any further name-calling occurs. If you want to tell people to jump off roofs or to go fuck themselves, do it somewhere else. Keep focused on the issues - not on your emotions. Thank you.

[RobWin]

I caught the Slotchik/Casinomeister one and nearly wet myself! The guy is hilarious... I love the gangsta-style words and language, interspersed with quite mundane points - in the nice neat office. It's like a cross between fiddy cent and David Brent (Michael Scott for American audiences).

I have no opinion on what these people are doing/trying to do or any of that nonsense and best of luck to them - but to the casual observer - it's hilarious!

As for Cipher... The usual smoke and mirrors, the usual BS - and the usual skirting round the issue... Well and truly outed - game over.

Damn, that was a freaking great video Damian made, time to break it down for Cipher ..........

You go Damian...

[jerrylee]

I just watched the video again
http://www.dailymotion.com/freakyway...yw5_crook20001

The end where Damian looks into the cam and says..."you got a gambling problem??" is so over the top, I had to laugh. (but yes, I know this whole debacle is serious business)

[RobWin]

[QUOTE=GrandMaster;143616]

The first priority should be the recovery of the debt, which is a civil matter. Criminal charges should be secondary.

He could go this way GrandMaster but if he wanted to try and collect anything above the original $20K invested he could not collect on the Punitive damages because Punitive damages are never awarded in a civil case under contract law in the US. If he did in fact have a contract with Cipher verbal or written, WB would need to prusue a Criminal case against Cipher if he wanted to try and collect excess monies above 20K.

In a civil case under tort law, there is a possibility of punitive damages, if the defendant's conduct is egregious and had either (1) a malicious intent (i.e., desire to cause harm), or (2) gross negligence (i.e., conscious indifference), or (3) a willful disregard for the rights of others.

Just so you know I totally agree with you that he should not take advice from any one of us, he needs to just speak with a good attorney asap and be advised from there.

What I know about the law and cases here in the US is solely based on all the background I have had in contract law, being in the Construction and Real Estate Industry for the last 27 years you spend a lot of time in the courtroom and in meetings with attorneys and DA's offices when you work for a large construction company in an executive capacity.

[Pinababy69]

Just so you know I totally agree with you that he should not take advice from any one of us, he needs to just speak with a good attorney asap and be advised from there.

That is the best advice. A forum or message board serves the purpose of getting the word out and exposing a fraudster to the community, but beyond that..you are best seeking legal advice for your specific problem. WB has been given many different options of following this up legally. I definitely hope he looks into all of them.

What strikes me as really sad about this whole thing is that we have shady casinos who rip off players (and affiliates), and we have shady players/affiliates who try to rip off casinos. It now looks like we have a forum member/player who screwed over a fellow player. That truly sucks.

[Stanford]

What strikes me as really sad about this whole thing is that we have shady casinos who rip off players (and affiliates), and we have shady players/affiliates who try to rip off casinos. It now looks like we have a forum member/player who screwed over a fellow player. That truly sucks.

What is sad is the fat lady isn't singing. Cipher isn't expressing contrition. On the contrary, he is still selling his scamsystem. There are going to be other desparate people that get there money stolen.

That's why I am not sure we should wait. It might be time for many of us to contact the FBI independently and have this guy investigated.

We have all given Cipher far to much lattitude because he was a player advocate at one time. But he is still a scamster. And he is still scaming as we speak.

You know, often times the only way for a person to get out of the denial stage is for people to be brutally frank about their activity. I think Cipher may well be a gambling addict and we might actually being doing him a favor by pushing him closer to the bottom.

Stanford.

[Pinababy69]

What is sad is the fat lady isn't singing. Cipher isn't expressing contrition. On the contrary, he is still selling his scamsystem. There are going to be other desparate people that get there money stolen.

I agree on that Stanford, absolutely. Which is why I mentioned the webpage, which if laden with enough of the proper keywords, would be brought up anytime someone went searching for blackjack or blackjack systems (or Cipher for that matter). But again, I still would want to see the actual proof first, ie. emails, agreement, cheque, etc. And I'd want to make sure it was authentic.

[Stanford]

I agree on that Stanford, absolutely. Which is why I mentioned the webpage, which if laden with enough of the proper keywords, would be brought up anytime someone went searching for blackjack or blackjack systems (or Cipher for that matter). But again, I still would want to see the actual proof first, ie. emails, agreement, cheque, etc. And I'd want to make sure it was authentic.

Your idea for a webpage is an excellent idea.

Proof is out there. Go to WOL where he offers to pay back the money in $500 installments and then withdraws the offer.

Even without this player, the guys is a conman. Go to his website and review his own material that he tries to represent his system will give a player an edge for a mere $1,000. It's snake oil.

Go to Blackjackinfo.com and see what real blackjack professionals say. Particularly that guy posting as Qfit. That's Norm Wattenberger. He has forgotten more about blackjack and simulation software than most of us will ever know. Many if not most blackjack professionals use Casino Verite software written by Norm.

If you want an independent answer, pop over to Arnold Snyder's site and just post the link to Cipher's system and ask if it is legit. They won't be kind with the answer.

There really isn't any doubt about Cipher. The only question is his motivation. If it is a gambling addiction, there is hope he can make amends. But first he has to admit his addiction.

Stanford

[umberto]

Cipher, GAME is OVER mate....
You do what you ve always done right....
Not answering to any question asked....
I do not thnk you ll ever have the time to clean your name from this.

Have a good one.....

[Pinababy69]

I've seen it all Stanford. When I spoke of proof, I meant as it relates to Westland Bowl's issue with Cipher directly. Besides posts on a forum.

I really wish that anyone else who has been hoodwinked in the same manner as Westland Bowl would come forward and verify that Cipher has indeed done this to more than one person. The only conclusion I can draw is that they are refraining from doing so on legal advice, or, they still hold out hope that Cipher may pay them. Or, I guess it's always possible they don't exist at all. But I vote for one or two.