Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[lnspin]

Thanks for your condolences. I do miss my mother very much.

The Cipher software that I used was Bruce's older version which he gave out for free. The $1000 one is the newer Java version and was supposed to come iwith personal instructions/lessons via phone (I guess) from Bruce himself.

Indeed, legal action is in the talks right now. There are various ways to go about this: Postal Service investigation, personal lawyer, Federal Class Action lawsuit, DOJ investigation, etc. Weighing the options in the next couple of days.

DOnt forget the mot important one the FBI cyber crimes unit , there the worst and the work the quickest . File a complaint with them and in a few days they will begin investigating him , not only that but they will also call in the irs wich will go thru his records for the past 10 years , and if he even forgot to list $1 in gambling income they going to screw him royally

[lojo]

DOnt forget the mot important one the FBI cyber crimes unit , there the worst and the work the quickest . File a complaint with them and in a few days they will begin investigating him , not only that but they will also call in the irs wich will go thru his records for the past 10 years , and if he even forgot to list $1 in gambling income they going to screw him royally

Viscious

Take your time and get some damn good legal advise, it could be a can of worms. They will 'look' at you as well.

[RobWin]

Cipher is reading this thread right now, maybe he will say something, but I seriously doubt it.

[Slotster!]

Cipher is reading this thread right now, maybe he will say something, but I seriously doubt it.

He'll say how he can't tell us what's going on, because it's a big secret and commercially sensitive and some other smoke and mirrors to essentially avoid the point.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that bizarre offer over on the other site (where he says I'll give you $500 a month or something)... is he on drugs!?! Trying to wrestle control back like that, when you're so very clearly in the wrong, is unbelievable!

Either do the right thing and pay the man, or at least have the decency to go into hiding and spend the rest of your days looking over your shoulder - like every other exposed two-bit crook. Hanging around and trying to somehow still sound legitimate is just rubbing salt in the wounds.

[RobWin]

He'll say how he can't tell us what's going on, because it's a big secret and commercially sensitive and some other smoke and mirrors to essentially avoid the point.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that bizarre offer over on the other site (where he says I'll give you $500 a month or something)... is he on drugs!?! Trying to wrestle control back like that, when you're so very clearly in the wrong, is unbelievable!

Either do the right thing and pay the man, or at least have the decency to go into hiding and spend the rest of your days looking over your shoulder - like every other exposed two-bit crook. Hanging around and trying to somehow still sound legitimate is just rubbing salt in the wounds.

PAY DAT MAN HIS MONEY .....you piece of S**T Cipher

[lojo]

He might say; I need help. I f*cked up. Is there anything I can do to make it right? Please, I'm scared. And I can't tell you how sorry I am. I tried, and I really thought I could do it. But I was wrong. It just got out of hand. I didn't mean to hurt anybody.

But he doesn't seem to be saying anything here.

Here's what I would do. I would make a sincere apology after much soul-searching. In that apology would be a plan to make up for any and all harm I had caused, A promise to myself to never go down that road again, and a quantifyable system of accountability; monitored by the people I had burned.

If this is what it looks like, he would be so lucky to have a judge give him that deal.

Get a lawyer dude, and I hope he is a true friend. Don't try flying some 12 step program in front of a federal judge, they know better. Do the right thing whatever that is. You seem to have incredible talents but you got in over your head. Don't go topping yourself over money, and don't go to the 'darkside' to try to make it right.

I feel for ya. Hope you make it right.

[GrandMaster]

I just contacted my lawyer. The statute of limitations for a fraud suit in CA is 1 year from the time the fraud occurs.

At what time is the fraud deemed to take place? The time limit for suing for debt is almost certainly different from the criminal statute of limitations.

DOnt forget the mot important one the FBI cyber crimes unit , there the worst and the work the quickest . File a complaint with them and in a few days they will begin investigating him , not only that but they will also call in the irs wich will go thru his records for the past 10 years , and if he even forgot to list $1 in gambling income they going to screw him royally

Westland Bowl, You need to get in touch with the District Attorney as soon as possible and have him persue the charges of:

1. Theft By Deception

and

2. Theft By Conversion......(before the statue of limitations runs out)


These are two major charges that are Felonies in the US with lots of jail time if convicted.

If you can convince the DA to persue this case it should be your best hope of recovering your money or at least some of it if Cipher is convicted.

Most likely he would plead "Nolo contendere" and the jail time sentence would be suspended by the Judge and Cipher would be placed on Probation until he had fully paid back all monies awared in your case.

Also if you can get Three people together that have been scammed and wronged by his actions you can then file a Class Action Law Suit which is a Federal case.

Hope this helps and Good Luck...

The first priority should be the recovery of the debt, which is a civil matter. Criminal charges should be secondary. My recommendation is to talk to an attorney who could advise on the best way to proceed, rather than take legal advice from unqualified people here. I would also make print-outs and take screenshots of Cipher's websites, relevant message board posts, just in case they may be useful as evidence. Again, the attorney should be able to advise how to make them most reliable and admissible in court.

Westland Bowl, I meant to ask you and forgot. The original sum in question is 20K. Cipher did give you $2,400 in March. Would you be satisfied in receiving the remaining $17,600 back, maybe even in installments? Or are you looking for the figure of 81K, that you have calculated as the amount due, according to the original "agreement"?

My gut feeling is that it would be hard to recover anything above the original amount and possible some interest at a reasonable rate, but this is best left for a lawyer to decide.

[cipher]

My thoughts on this:

I've always been a believer in the adage that "There are always two sides to every story"...

That said... I would hope that Cipher responds to these allegations... but until he does so... the aggrieved person making these accusations (Tim) has presented a very compelling and believable posting of his dealings with Cipher. Since other "investors" are similarly involved with this... I would hope that some of them come forward and detail their experiences with Cipher also.

Well said mrracetrack, there are indeed.


It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count. All further comments will be made on the cipher website at http://www.cipherblackjack.com. If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of
mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.

At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.

[aodat2]

Well said mrracetrack, there are indeed.


It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count. All further comments will be made on the cipher website at http://www.cipherblackjack.com. If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of
mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.

At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.

I don't really care what clients or something that you have in the east/west/north or even south coast. It has nothing to do with the fact that you took this fella's money and you not wanting to return it to him.

If you dare to come over to talk, then answer us all the questions that we have.

1. Did you take his money?
2. Did you promise him a return of 15%?
3. Where is the money that is due to him?
4. Where is his money entirely?
5. Why have you not honored his request to get back his money?
6. Why are you always trying to avoid questions from him?

Answer us all the above questions and we'll see your side of the story. If you are telling us that you're so noble and etc, then please do tell us that what WB said are all lies and thus proving it too.

The only person who is going to pay is yourself if you actually do not answer those questions.

[Westland Bowl]

I've just now posted a reply to Cipher's same post he put up on OPU. Cipher's moved his theater of tragedy from BlackjackInfo over to OPU starting on page two of "Scammers in our midst?" thread: http://www.onlineplayersunion.com/fo...44/index2.html

Just so that everyone's straight, I am:
Westland Bowl at Casinomeister,
Liquid Chips at BlackjackInfo.com
Catman Dude =^-.-^= at Online Players Union (OPU)
Tomcat at Winner Online (WOL)

Well said mrracetrack, there are indeed.

It's time to put up or shut up Westland Bowl. No more lame talk from you, your brother or anyone else in the BELL clan. This is your fifteen minutes of fame and you'd better make it count. All further comments will be made on the cipher website at http://www.cipherblackjack.com. If your claim is legitimate you will be allowed to post. I will not participate in the ghosting nonsense that has been going on at this and other sites as well. This is serious business and someone is going to pay dearly. Yesterday I counted no less than four morons with claims of being clients of
mine. The funny thing is I have ZERO clients on the east coast.

At this point Westland Bowl, your brother and your entire clan of advisors including Damian Dunlap and the Zengrifter had better come up with a way for you to prove each and every element of every charge. The amount of disinformation and misinformation in this case is only rivaled by the Pirate of the Caribbean of a few years ago. I thought maybe just maybe something might have been learned from that process but evidentially not.