Cipher- The Wizard of BJ

[kakata]

Sorry Win Big I dont undearstend what you mean.
Try to explain to me in an easy way............Im Italian and my english is very poor( as you probably noticed)
What do you mean with cipher rules and so on.????
I gave him money .....he owes me...he must pay.
Thats the only way I see it.
Especially when he(cipher) is so arrogant (hope is right word).

[bongwater]

Cipher should not be allowed to use any of these online forums unless he answers some questions. From what I have seen he has never refuted anything said by WB. The only question is whether or not Cipher knows his program is a joke. He writes so passionately about his "sessions" that it seems he deosn't. It is obvious to me it is a joke as all it really does is record your wins and losses. I mean there may be some bells and whistles, but essentially you could accomplish the same thing with pen and paper, excel spreadsheet, or a bag of M & Ms(most likely how this got started). He recently claimed on his own forum that you could actually use this "system" at a real casino. This takes the "breaking the RNG" claim out of it. Can an intelligent person actually beleive this? Everyone will have to judge for themselves. Check out this thread from his forum, written by one of cipher's disciples,



"Cipher displays strands vertically which is awsome, but the house edge is actually horizontal. Imagine a graph, like the ones used in stocks. When you start your graph and play session, have a line down the center of your paper, (graph paper works best) when the dealer wins put a hash mark down and when you win put a hash mark upward.after a few hands you will see how the machine is playing. In the house edge or in the player edge. Catman this explains why you left the casino and came back but were still losing, It was in the house edge, When the house is winning you have to play conservative until you see the climb upward. Prefereably past the center line you have drawn. I hope this helps some people. This explains why you can sit down sometimes and make a bunch of money and then lose it all because you bet the same way you were when you were winning, thats why if you cant see the house edge you wont know when to change the way you bet until you come out of the house edge. This along with Cipher is very good. Thanks Cipher for all your help, he was the one that helped me to figure this out, and again I hope it helps."

[lnspin]

theres one thing everyone should understand , if someone really has a guaranteed moneymake , they will NEVER sell it .

The first thing you should do when you see something that says GUARANTEED TO MAKE YOU MONEY is run the other way .

the only thing that is almost 100% guaranteed to make you $$ is work

[jerrylee]

Emotions are running high here and I feel for Westland Bowl too.
Even more charged is the blackjackinfo thread.

Best posts from there IMO, between all the mudslinging were
1. Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) www.ic3.gov
2. USPS Mail Fraud www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/welcome.htm

Not sure if it was answered by WB (OP) / Liquid Chips on BJI, but is
a. original agreement in writing - by email I guess about investing 20K?
b. and how did you send 20K payment? by mail/wire transfer.. ?

WB if your claim is truly legit, and sounds like it could be, save time and headache and file the claim. No more need to duke it out on the the forums.

[jerrylee]

Originally Posted by lnspin

theres one thing everyone should understand , if someone really has a guaranteed moneymake , they will NEVER sell it .
The first thing you should do when you see something that says GUARANTEED TO MAKE YOU MONEY is run the other way .
the only thing that is almost 100% guaranteed to make you $$ is work

Also, not to throw salt on Westland Bowl's wounds, but I agree with this warning.

So, let's all review the IC3's warnings on current Internet schemes...
www.ic3.gov/crimeschemes.aspx
We see it all the time, from the phishing emails to the Nigerian scams...but hey doesn't hurt to be aware.

[aodat2]

Quoting Liquid Chips from BJI, "Come on, work with me here. I won't ask for the interest if you just pay the principal of $17,600 in one cashier's check...just like I sent it to you."

I'm very sure that he actually sent it to him via MAIL. So yes, the Postal law thingy does apply here.

I would definitely like to see Cipher paying BIG TIME for this scam.

[BingoT]

I feel sorry for the one's he lead on.It's a shame you just can't trust no one on this online stuff.
Cipher should just face up to it and pay who ever has money coming.
Has anyone ever meet him face to face? or is he the type of @ that sits behind a keyboard.
I don't understand why would someone go his way to think they would be rich today.
I say take the money and go to a casino yourself and see what you can win on your own.

It's like the old saying.
"A Sucker Born Every Day"
or
I have Property on a great beach in Fla or Aruba real cheap.
And people fall for it everytime.
Fight for your rights and put this guy where he belongs
Two things in life I hate more A Liar or a Cheat.

Good Luck to all that are involved

[NextToYou]

This thread is hilarious. How stupid one has to be to believe that someone can beat online blackjack in long term (without promotions or bonuses) and then give him money?

The game is -EV, one will lose in long term, daa?

I looked at cipher website and looking page 5 sec one with brains can understand that the program he sells is total BS and whole site is just a try to "scam" some money. Scam with quotemarks, because it´s not illegal to sell something, like horseshit or fresh air, if someone is stupid enough to buy it.

OP:s money is propably already gone to feed someones gambling addiction.


P.S Anyone wanting to buy fresh air for $1000? I will send it in envelope.

[cheekymonkey]

Originally Posted by NextToYou

P.S Anyone wanting to buy fresh air for $1000? I will send it in envelope.

What a rip off!

I can get it for £20 here.

[Westland Bowl]

Originally Posted by aodat2

Quoting Liquid Chips from BJI, "Come on, work with me here. I won't ask for the interest if you just pay the principal of $17,600 in one cashier's check...just like I sent it to you."

I'm very sure that he actually sent it to him via MAIL. So yes, the Postal law thingy does apply here.

I would definitely like to see Cipher paying BIG TIME for this scam.

I do have a copy of the cashier's check with Bruce Holway's name on it.

But I sent it via Federal Express, instead of the US Postal Mail. Does the Postal law thingy cover private/corporate carriers like FedEx, DHL, etc???