Rogue List

[lots0]

Bryan, it looks like your Rogue Casino list is much more popular than I thought.

The Russian blackhat scumbags have stolen it, no credit given either...

BTW - This Ahole is a member here...

xxxhttp://www.777-online-gambling.net/wordpress/blacklisted-casinos/

 

[The Dude]

Thanks!

Funny - they even have a "protected by" copyscape logo on the site. It should be entitled, "Copyscrape"

 

[lots0]

No problem.

this guy has been a pain in my butt for a while.

I don't know for sure. but what this guy is doing looks a lot like the crap that was going on at 888 a while back...

Oh ya he is ranking in google for [rogue casinos]...

 

[aksana]

Hi Bryan, sorry, it's my fault. We had several discussions on webmaster forums, and webmasters recommended your blacklist as one of the best. I took only a list of casinos, I didn't take any information about these casinos from your site. I needed only a list of casinos. I know your blacklist is one of the best, because it's true.

And now I update this list with my new blacklisted casinos.

Sorry, my fault.

If you do not mind I will add a link to your blacklist on my page.

Really I don't know how to rewrite this list of casinos in other words, it's not a text, it's only list of casinos.

 

[aksana]

No problem.

this guy has been a pain in my butt for a while.

I don't know for sure. but what this guy is doing looks a lot like the crap that was going on at 888 a while back...

Oh ya he is ranking in google for [rogue casinos]...

How may I know you? What bad things did I do for you? I'm an honest girl, and I don't understand why you are so angry at me.

 

[aksana]

Bryan, it looks like your Rogue Casino list is much more popular than I thought.

The Russian blackhat scumbags have stolen it, no credit given either...

BTW - This Ahole is a member here...

xxxhttp://www.777-online-gambling.net/wordpress/blacklisted-casinos/

You must apologize for your words. I'm not ahole member and I'm not a blackhat member. You have no any rights to say such things!!!!

 

[jas2587]

You must apologize for your words. I'm not ahole member and I'm not a blackhat member. You have no any rights to say such things!!!!

with all due respect you didnt give Bryan the Casino meister credit for his Rogue Casino list untill some one pointed it out to Bryan
Now Lotso is I believe a forum owner also (( I might be wrong on that but I dont think so )) so maybe just maybe you philfered something from his site also
hence the unkind words

you are letting people do your work for you after all their hard work
with 2 clicks you highlight copy an paste

tsk tsk

Hiya Lotso


Cindy

 

[winbig]

You must apologize for your words. I'm not ahole member and I'm not a blackhat member. You have no any rights to say such things!!!!

Really?

So you think it's a-ok to steal content, content which is clearly copyrighted?

To be brutally honest, if you're unsure of how to re-write stuff for your own use, ie: unique content, you need to hire someone that does; if you want to stay in business...

 

[aksana]

Yes, I have apologized for this, and it's my very big mistake. I have learned this lesson. But I didn't take the whole content from Bryan's page, I only took a list of rogue casinos. Now I've added a link to CasinoMeister's site.

 

[lots0]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Not a link spammer.... Ya, you are.

Funny your smart enough to run a large sophisticated link spamming network, but your not able to figure out some simple html.... I call bull shit.

Also the idea that one poor little Russian girl runs this large 777 spam network all by herself is rather naive.

 

[RobWin]

If you do not mind I will add a link to your blacklist on my page.

A Link-Back should have been the first thing you did aksana. Anytime you use info or content from someone else's site you should first and foremost have their blessing or approval and then at the very least give that webmaster a Link-Back to the original content. It's really hard for me to believe that you would not know about Link-Backs and content theft.

 

[aksana]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Ok, I don't see any link spammers here. My site is very big, and all these pages have content. Except one subdomain, cowboy.777-online-gambling.net. Really, I had a small site there, but soon I closed it, and now it's only redirected to www.777-online-gambling.net.

All other subdomains are translated sites. So I don't see any link spam here.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

These are my backlinks, I don't see any link spam there. Some links are from my site, some links are from directories, some links from forums. I'd like to remove my link from only a one site, but it's impossible. So, 25 backlinks is a link spam, isn't it?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Ok, these are my pages, and all of them contain content. Is it not allowed to have so many subdomains?

I again don't understand why you are so angry at me

 

[aksana]

Also I'd like to post a link to the GPWA thread, where lots0 started the same topic and we are also discussing it there:

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[aksana]

And one more thing, copyscape does not give any results when you check my page there, so I again repeat that I didn't copy all Bryan's content, I only took an alphabetical list of rogue casinos, that to prevent my visitors from playing there. This list can't be changed because it's just a list.

Of course, I was to add any mention about CasinoMeister site, what I have done now.

 

[winbig]

And one more thing, copyscape does not give any results when you check my page there, so I again repeat that I didn't copy all Bryan's content, I only took an alphabetical list of rogue casinos, that to prevent my visitors from playing there. This list can't be changed because it's just a list.

Of course, I was to add any mention about CasinoMeister site, what I have done now.

Of course a list is a list. It's all in how you present it.

It's one thing to just list the casinos, but it's even better to actually write (in your own words) why players should stay away from them.

A list without these reasons carries no weight, imo..that goes for anyone, not just you.

 

[aksana]

Of course a list is a list. It's all in how you present it.

It's one thing to just list the casinos, but it's even better to actually write (in your own words) why players should stay away from them.

A list without these reasons carries no weight, imo..that goes for anyone, not just you.

Of course, I agree with you. But time, time and again time. And of course, I have such task in my plans. Lots0 can't believe that I run my site alone, but it's true. As he said on GPWA:

Also those of you that think that this 777 network is run by ONLY one woman is not familiar with running a network.

I work 10-12 hours a day, and I'm trying to do my best. Usually spammers and content stealers do not work so many hours.

 

[The Dude]

Back to the content "scrape". If you want to have a list of rogue or blacklisted casinos, you need to do the research and build your own. Don't copy lists.

What you should have done is to build a page with links to others' Black List pages. I could think of a few. You could summarize each one for instance: Casinomeister's Rogue Section - detailed exposes on Rogue, Not Recommended Casinos, Fake Watchdog sites, Rogue software, etc., etc., etc. This would have been much more informative and is conductive to a better Internet environment.

What you did was just plain lazy and sloppy. You should have known better.

And what's with all the sites by the way. You're polluting the Internet with this stuff. Ask yourself "are all these 777 sites necessary?" This is not responsible webmastering IMO.

Admin note: moved to webmaster section.

 

[aksana]

Back to the content "scrape". If you want to have a list of rogue or blacklisted casinos, you need to do the research and build your own. Don't copy lists.

What you should have done is to build a page with links to others' Black List pages. I could think of a few. You could summarize each one for instance: Casinomeister's Rogue Section - detailed exposes on Rogue, Not Recommended Casinos, Fake Watchdog sites, Rogue software, etc., etc., etc. This would have been much more informative and is conductive to a better Internet environment.

What you did was just plain lazy and sloppy. You should have known better.

Ok, Bryan, today I will remove this list. And will write my own. I agree with you and I again apologize for that.

And what's with all the sites by the way. You're polluting the Internet with this stuff. Ask yourself "are all these 777 sites necessary?" This is not responsible webmastering IMO.

yes, these sites are necessary. And I was not going to spam the Internet, just wanted to offer casinos, promotions and news in other languages, what I'm doing now.

 

[dominique]

I am confused.

Are these different sites, or are they subdomains with content translated into different languages?

My site has different language sections, and I am told that for better SEO I should make these foreign language pages subdomains so spiders have an easier time sorting this...

I also check the Casinomeister Rogue List periodically to see if I missed anything in my blacklist - mostly I go by my own player complaints, but there are a lot of casinos out there I don't touch with a ten foot pole so of course I have no complaints about them and they still need to be added.

IMO the internet is about information, as webmasters we all should provide the most complete information we can gather. And we shouldn't be afraid to refer our visitors to sites that have additional info, There is a box on top of Casinomeister when you login that shows who is referring players to the forum/site. I am almost always in that box. It's a give and take, and the point of it is to provide the best possible service to visitors.

So, the fact that Aksana cares about telling her visitors about bad casinos is a good thing. That she looked at Casinomeister for a list is a good thing. But, she should have spent more time before putting up her own list, like Bryan said, crossreferenced with other sites that have this info and researched the reasons for the rogueing. Then a decent page can go up that is all her own, and should link to the sites that helped provide the info.

I think Aksana meant well and cared enough to provide that info. That's a huge plus in my eyes, too many sites just could care less where they send their visitors. But she could have asked Bryan if she can use his info, supplemented it herself with additional info, and given credit where credit is due.

Now I am still at a loss about this subdomain thing, a recent SEO lecture recommended this for separation of different languages...

 

[aksana]

I am confused.

Are these different sites, or are they subdomains with content translated into different languages?

My site has different language sections, and I am told that for better SEO I should make these foreign language pages subdomains so spiders have an easier time sorting this...

Dominique, these are only subdomains with content translated into different languages. And I don't understand why they think that it's a blackhat SEO and link spam.

 

[lots0]

I'd like to make one more quick point.

Point I'd like to make:
Copyscape and mutants of copyscape are a tool that is extensively used by blackhat SEO's to avoid detection of copied(stolen) content. In my opinion, some configurations of copyscape are nothing more than a lame cloaking tool... But that is my opinion. I'll wait to see if the google quality control team agrees with me or not.
I also can not think of a single 'good' reason why an 'honest' webmaster would want to use a program like Copyscape.

 

[dominique]

I use copyscape regularly to detect copies of my content.

You won't believe how much content theft is out there. If you have a lot of unique, painstakingly written content, someone is going to steal it and put it on their own sites.

Copyscape helps to ferret the thieves out, I randomly enter text from my site and it shows me if and where there are any duplicates online. Then I can take action.

I highly recommend the use of copyscape to anyone who writes unique content and publishes it online. It's the only easy way I know of to find the thieves.

 

[lots0]

I use copyscape regularly to detect copies of my content.

You won't believe how much content theft is out there. If you have a lot of unique, painstakingly written content, someone is going to steal it and put it on their own sites.

Copyscape helps to ferret the thieves out, I randomly enter text from my site and it shows me if and where there are any duplicates online. Then I can take action.

I highly recommend the use of copyscape to anyone who writes unique content and publishes it online. It's the only easy way I know of to find the thieves.

OK... But do you use copyscape in the same configuration as this site does on your sites? I've never seen you do that before Dom.

 

[dominique]

I use the free service... there is a paid version and I don't know too much about it but it automatically looks at your content and notifies you of copies, I think. I think when you subscribe you get a symbol to put on your site, like what security companies give you to announce that your home is protected to discourage burglars...

 

[lots0]

Dom take a look at the site in question.

You'll see the configuration is set up (in my opinion) to cloak content...
However, google is the one and only one to really decide what is and is not 'cloaking',

 

[AussieDave]

Funny - they even have a "protected by" copyscape logo on the site. It should be entitled, "Copyscrape"

 

[dominique]

Dom take a look at the site in question.

You'll see the configuration is set up (in my opinion) to cloak content...
However, google is the one and only one to really decide what is and is not 'cloaking',

I would if I knew all about cloaking techniques - but I don't. I should learn about it though so I know it when I see it.

 

[lots0]

Dom just try to look at the source code on the site and you'll see what I mean.

 

[aksana]

Dom just try to look at the source code on the site and you'll see what I mean.

Could you tell me what interesting did you find in my source code? All source code was programmed by me, and I don't see any strange things there. I use php, mysql database, css. Is it not allowed?

You said that I was a link spammer, you said that I used blackhat SEO, you said that I had a spam network, you said that I was a Russian front of spammers affiliated with 888.com and moreover you said that I promoted them exclusively (I have never promoted them exclusively!!!)- nothing was proved by real facts. And now you say that I use cloaking techniques, how can I use them if I even know nothing about such techniques.

Yes, I took a list of casinos from CM. And it was only an alphabetical list of casinos, I didn't copy any other content from his site, because I'm not a content thief. And I have already apologized for that.


And moreover I looked at your source code, lots0. And from your words I can say that you use cloaking technologies.

 

[dominique]

Dom just try to look at the source code on the site and you'll see what I mean.

Ok, so one can't see the source code. But that can be a protection against content theft?

 

[aksana]

Ok, so one can't see the source code. But that can be a protection against content theft?

Understand nothing. Dom, can you see my source code? I didn't disable to view my source code. I could see it in FF3, IE7, Opera without any problems. Do you have any difficulties to view my source code?

 

[dominique]

No, I can't see it. Using IE7. I think it may be part of the copyscape protection?

 

[aksana]

No, I can't see it. Using IE7. I think it may be part of the copyscape protection?

Of course, no, I don't have any copyscape protections. I can see my source from all browsers. It's very strange, ok, I'll ask other members to check my source. Thanks for letting me know.

You may try to view my source code in Firefox, Opera, Safari. I've just checked, it's viewable in all browsers. I don't understand why you can't see it in IE, maybe it's IE bug?

 

[dominique]

Ok, I just read at GPWA - yes I was using the right-click to view source.

I can see source if I go through IE page tools...

 

[lots0]

Ok, so one can't see the source code. But that can be a protection against content theft?

Not really, because the source is visible using other methods, than right click. That's how the browsers are able to render the source. If the browser is able to render the source... the content can be copied and stolen.

More like it would prevent a script (or translator) from EASILY being able locate "duplicate" content.

You said that I was a link spammer, you said that I used blackhat SEO, you said that I had a spam network, you said that I was a Russian front of spammers affiliated with 888.com and moreover you said that I promoted them exclusively (I have never promoted them exclusively!!!)- nothing was proved by real facts. And now you say that I use cloaking techniques, how can I use them if I even know nothing about such techniques.

Ya that perdy much sums up what I think. With a couple of exceptions;

1. I never said you promoted 888 exclusively... I believe the exact wording I used was "almost exclusively". I guess I could have been a little more clear in my choice of words, sorry.

2. I said you are a link spammer. But I also said that it is not up to me to decide if you are or not. It is up to google to decide if you are a link spammer or not.
I would refer you to the section on Link Spam here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

or here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Then take a look at your site in Yahoo site explorer... what do you see?

 

[aksana]

2. I said you are a link spammer. But I also said that it is not up to me to decide if you are or not. It is up to google to decide if you are a link spammer or not.
I would refer you to the section on Link Spam here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

or here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Ok, today I've read

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

written by Gary, a SEO expert. So, from his article I see that it's allowed to use subdomains to geo target. So why are my subdomains spam? Please, explain me this thing, I don't understand why you think that I'm a link spammer.

Ok, I have another question. We all know casinocity.com. It's one of my favorite gambling portals, and it's one of the oldest and respected gambling portals. Look at its index

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- more than 94,000 pages, and a lot of subdomains, are they also link spammers? Of course, no. So, why am I a link spammer? I just want to have geo-targeted subdomains.

Then take a look at your site in Yahoo site explorer... what do you see?

Of course, I see my pages, but what is strange there?
Why do you never explain your thoughts?

You said that I used a cloaking script that to hide my source code, but you didn't explain me why you thought so. Only Dom told me that she couldn't see my source code by right clicking in IE, BUT She could see my source code by using the menu in IE. So where is your cloaking script? You even didn't apologize for that.

So, please, explain why you think that my subdomains are spam?

 

[Alexandre]

Aksana has been a very naughty girl and she was caught with here nose in the pot of jam.
She admited it and she is now giving credit to CasinoMeister for the rogue casinos list.
Maybe it's not enough for Bryan and he would like her to remove the list.
But I don't understand all the "russian link spammer cloaker" thing.
I didn't want to jump earlier in this thread because it involves checking datas but now I've spent about 20mn doing it I don't see a footprint of spam in the source or backlinks of her website.
No problemo for me concerning subdomains and languages it's the way it has to be done and it's the way I do it (slightly different, my www. doesn't host the primary language, it redirects to the proper one, it's just a hub page).
All the links which appear in the homepage are visible by the user from the right navigation (like ABC Casino Bonus Guide and Casino Payments Methods Guide).
That's not cloaking and I don't see anything else which could be interpreted as cloaking.
Concerning links, her website has less than 1.200...not big numbers for a link spammer and after checking some of hem I couldn't find anything I wouldn't do myself (I have some corpses around me but who doesn't in terms of SEO when you know that you can't control who links to you).
Finally I don't see any clear accusation against Aksana, just questioning but maybe I've missed something ?

 

[lots0]

...Concerning links, her website has less than 1.200...not big numbers for a link spammer and after checking some of hem I couldn't find anything I wouldn't do myself (I have some corpses around me but who doesn't in terms of SEO when you know that you can't control who links to you).
Finally I don't see any clear accusation against Aksana, just questioning but maybe I've missed something ?

Don't know where you get your 1200 figure... according to yahoo site explorer her site changes on a daily basis from some 15,000 pages to around 10,000 pages depending on how her 'cloaking' script has been configured.

As of this writing the site is showing 15,209 pages.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Since all the attention to this site, it appears that the cloaking script was removed yesterday and replaced by a right click denial meta tag.

I will say this... whoever is doing her coding is perdy good.

 

[lots0]

Done

I just wanted to let everyone know I'm done with this.

I have a mountain of circumstantial evidence that points toward her site. but the only REAL hard proof that I could find and present to the community was the copying of CM's list.

The community has been now been informed and the search engines have been informed.

Everyone can now make their own decisions about this site.

If you don't believe me fine by me... If you do, it is also fine by me. The only horse I got in this race is still back in the stable.

FYI - The main reason spammers/scammers can exist so well in todays world is because of the difficulty of PROVING the hacking/spamming. Even big powerful governments have a very hard time proving spamming/hacking, even with all their resources. And the bad guys know this very very well.

 

[Alexandre]

I was talking about 1.200 inbound links not indexed pages.
You'll find them

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.
Concerning the difference of pages showed by Google or Yahoo from a day to another it has nothing to do with cloaking, just datacenter round ups or updates.
As I've said before, maybe I've missed something.
Could you explain clearly why do you suspect this site to use cloaking and which kind of method it is/was using ?
I've checked the

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and I didn't find anything suspicious or different of what I can see now.

 

[dominique]

I have seen Aksana grow that site bit by bit for years. That is not the modus operandi of a spammer, blackhat sites pop up out of nowhere as a rule.

If you look at gamesandcasino at yahoo site advisor, it is very similair to Aksana's site, IMO it's just the result of many years in existance.

The blocking of right-click in viewing source used to be very popular - many of the people copying content and using it on their own site are newbies and they usually right click. It cuts down on the problem somewhat. With the browsers evolving over the years, it's not so effective anymore and it's not used much now, the serious offenders certainly know how to get around it.

The subdomains are also something I haven't used, but it is recommended for foreign language pages by SEO folk. It does initially raise an eyebrow because lots of blackhat sites DO use subdomains and lots of them. But it is perfectly legitimate to use them, and it is almost necessary to do so with foreign language sections.

The original complaint, copying Bryan's rogue list, has been fixed and maybe Bryan will chime in on Monday and let her know if it's ok now.

 

[aksana]

Lots0, I again repeat I don't use any cloaking scripts. And I didn't remove any cloaking scripts because I have never used them.

On all my subdomains I use my own CMS, and Wordpress integrated to my CMS. I submit all content MANUALLY! I would give you access to my CMS and to my Wordpress admin panels that to confirm I don't use any cloaking scripts, but I don't trust you. But I may give Dom access, and she will see the structure of my site. Tell me, Lots0, what must I do that you would believe me.

My site has been having such structure since September, 2007 as I remember, and nobody told me that my subdomains were spam. I'm constantly working on my site by adding new features, improving old features and etc.

You always may look at my site in Archive.org and you will see how I has been developing my site for all these years.

Honestly, I'm tired of your accusations without any real proofes.

 

[lots0]

I've checked the

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and I didn't find anything suspicious or different of what I can see now.

With an server side cloaking script you would not be able to see anything by going to the cache or the waybackmachine.

If it were that easy to catch these guys... we wouldn't have any problems with spammers/hackers.

I really am done with this.

I suggest you direct your technical questions on cloaking to someone you trust that really knows programming... not some idiot SEO, that only knows how to create search engine spam.

 

[aksana]

Since all the attention to this site, it appears that the cloaking script was removed yesterday and replaced by a right click denial meta tag.

If you so smart why didn't check my source code in different browsers, or even why didn't try to view my source code using the Menu in IE? if "right click" does not work than I use cloaking scripts, what rubbish!

And I found that thread where webmasters discussed this feature

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It was suggested by SlotPlayer

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And it seemed very interesting for me because I even didn't know about such feature. You may see that I even thanked SlotPlayer for this post, and from that time I started using these meta tags. That's all, no cloaking scripts!

 

[spearmaster]

Ding!

This thread is going nowhere. If there is nothing constructive moving forward, the thread will be closed.

 

[Alexandre]

I'm a a professional SEO and cloaking was my hobby in my early days.
Server side cloaking is accessible from Google cache because it's a copy of what Google sees.
That's why cloakers use the no cache option to avoid people (but not Google) spotting them by comparing the source code and te copy cached by Google.
Spammers are very easy to spot on the Internet because here everything is recorded, whatever you do leaves a footprint, you can't hide anything because of the same nature of Internet.
Aksana has clearly done a bad thing copying the Meister's list without giving credit, but we can't prosecute her for other things without proofs and with improper investigation.
That is my main message.
Just wanted to add that I don't know Aksana, never seen or heard of her before.

 

[lots0]

I'm a a professional SEO and cloaking was my hobby in my early days.
Server side cloaking is accessible from Google cache because it's a copy of what Google sees.
That's why cloakers use the no cache option to avoid people (but not Google) spotting them by comparing the source code and te copy cached by Google.
Spammers are very easy to spot on the Internet because here everything is recorded, whatever you do leaves a footprint, you can't hide anything because of the same nature of Internet.
Aksana has clearly done a bad thing copying the Meister's list without giving credit, but we can't prosecute her for other things without proofs and with improper investigation.
That is my main message.
Just wanted to add that I don't know Aksana, never seen or heard of her before.

If spammers are so easy to catch why are there so many of them?

I was a 'Professional SEO' before anyone knew what an SEO was. I no longer call myself an SEO because of all the pretenders that claim that title now.

No one is talking about prosecution.

The community needed to be informed and so did the search engines. They have been.

The community will make it's decision as will the search engines.

The search engines are the final judge of what is link spam and what is not... they will decide.

Spear, I though you were going to close this thread?

 

[spearmaster]

Spear, I though you were going to close this thread?

I was hoping someone was going to introduce something constructive. As this is clearly not going to be the case, this thread is now closed.