A review of Duplicate Poker.

[The Ronin]

A review of Duplicate Poker.com:

As I write this, I am waiting. Waiting is something you have to get used to when you play on this site. The tournaments are spaced well apart from each other and they go fast. The ring games are for a lack of a better word, desolate. I am sitting at a table with “TexasBoyle”, he is waiting as well. No point in trying to strike up a conversation with Boyle, he is a Bot.

We wait for someone else to join, adjacent to my seat, at another table, most likely with another Bot. The ring game, or cash game, is a tournament style game. Every hand you start with the same amount of chips, and when the hand is over, it matters little if you win at your table. The only thing that counts is if your mirror player, the one sitting in your seat at another table, using your same cards, has fewer chips then you at the end of the hand. He or she must play the hand worse then you did, and hope that the Bot didn’t fold pre-flop, like yours almost always does, and gave them some action.

This of course depends on which Bot you are playing with. Some give you action all the way to the river, calling you down with anything, and some fold almost every hand pre flop. There are times when you get other “live” players at your table, and once you get enough, the Bot quietly excuses himself. This is double edged however. If your mirror table doesn’t have and equal number of players as your table, then the Bot stays, and you only get to play every other hand. The downside of this, you are stuck in your position. I played 23 hands the other night, and was on the Big Blind for every single hand. The Bot had the Button, and Small Blind against me for every single hand we played, the other player at my table had position against the Bot, and saw substantial action on every hand, I on the other hand, was folded to, almost all 23 hands.

On the surface, the above scenario doesn’t seem all that bad. Bear in mind however, the ONLY WAY TO MAKE MONEY on this site, is to end the hand with more chips then your mirror player. So, unless your mirror player busts out, or loses their hand, your best case scenario is to lose 5 cents, and have $1.95 returned to your bankroll. It is important to be able to weather the storm, during times like this, and wait until either you are shifted to another table with the loose Bot, or more “real” players show up.

You can make money on this site. It won’t happen quickly, but if you take a disciplined low limit grinding approach to your play, and loosen up your starting hand requirements (substantially), you can profit. The way I have made money in the ring games, was to take $20.00 to the table, and as soon as I hit $30.00, I left. On one occasion, we actually had 4 players, and I stayed until I hit $40.00. For the most part however, your ring games will be heads up, against a Bot. Bank on that. If heads up pot-limit Texas Hold ‘em isn’t your game, stay away from the ring games!

Strong pocket pairs, good suited connectors, Ace anything, are all pretty much meaningless. The only thing that matters is if your mirror makes a mistake. Each hand costs $2.00 at this game, or $5.00 if you have the bankroll to play at that level, and I recommend you not bother, until you have a good feel for how to play at Duplicate Poker. . The most you can win per hand is $3.95 (at the $2.00 level). You mirror has to really mess up, for that to happen. They do, and once the game gets going, you have the potential to make some money!

I deposited $50.00, between tournaments and the $2.00 ring game, I had doubled up in about 2 hrs. Not bad, I have no idea if I got a bonus, but the Credit Card transaction for the deposit went smoothly and quickly.

I will talk more about the tournaments later. Suffice to say that they can be profitable.

Duplicate Poker has some work to do in my opinion. The Bots are frustrating. So far, I have encountered only 2. The one I mentioned above (Texas Boyle) and “Big John”. Each has their own distinctive method of play. Each one has a $1,000 bankroll, which when you first sit down, can be very intimidating. Once you get a feel for the game, and the variations in rules, you learn that the Bots bankroll is meaningless, and your only concern it your mirror. I am certain you will get tired of hearing that, but if you want to play on this site, you need to adapt that mindset. It is a challenge, and I recommend you prepare yourself for some serious Donkey action. I have adapted a method of play I refer to as “Ultra Donkey”, I think I might even get a cape and tights to wear, with a big kicking Donkey on the front!

The overall concept of Duplicate Poker is intriguing, which is why I gave them a try. Their interactive video tutorial is well made, but confusing. I got the impression I would be able to see my mirror player, or players in action. Giving me the ability to adjust my play according to their overall play. Well, it doesn’t work that way. Not even close! Duplicate Poker claims that “skill” is the deciding factor insofar as to how the winner of each hand or tournament is determined. Let me give you some hands that I played, on the $2.00 “Winner take all” ring game, and you can make your own determination.

I will give you the hand #, my cards, and the community cards, wagers placed through the river, along with the end result of profit or loss. I will be fair, and show you an equal number of losing hands vs. winning hands.

Example #1: Hand # 457177

I was dealt: Ah 3h. On the Big Blind. Facing a Live player, who folded pre-flop.

Flop: Ks 10s 5h

Turn: 9d

River: 2c

By checking the hand history in player admin panel, I was able to see that I ended the hand with: 1030 chips, and my mirror player ended with 1420 chips. Hand history shows a total loss on my part, meaning the mirror won $3.95. However, my hand written records, taken during the actual play of the hand, show I received $1.77. This and other contradictory records in the hand history will be discussed later on in my review.

Hand#: 457270

I was dealt: 6d Qc

Facing a Bot we raised each other twice. Pot is now 360 chips.

Flop: 9 4 7 all diamonds.

Turn: 6h

We got them all in on the turn. Remember what I said about the Bots, they either fold pre-flop, or call you down with nothing. Very rarely will you force a Bot to fold after the flop.

River:5h

The Bot turns over 8c 9s for the win.

Because my mirror and I played the hand the same way, meaning we both lost, but since we both lost, and both ended up with the same chip count if 0, we each got $1.95 returned. The Bots split their $4.00, for the same $1.95 each. House rake of 5cents per player.

Hand # 457275:

I was dealt: 10h Jc

We got them all in pre-flop.

Flop: Qh 9h 3d

Turn: 7d

River: Kh

After reviewing the hand history and replay, I saw the Bot had 5h 2c. He went all in with me pre-flop with that!

Anyway, I won $3.83 with that hand. The hand history says I won $3.95.

Therein lies one of the problems with Duplicate Poker. Things just don’t jive all the time. Let me explain:

Hand histories, like in the examples above, don’t add up. They don’t match what really happened. Sometimes your starting hand hole cards are different on the graph type history, then they are on the video of the hand.

Another inconsistency is with the tournament payout structure. I have won several of their tournaments, and not won what the payout structure said was to be paid for 1st place. Again, I have no idea why, perhaps it is something I am missing with the variation of the game. I do think they should be a bit more honest with that.

I am going to touch briefly on the strategy and offer some of my personal advice on how to play on Duplicate Poker. If anyone would like a more in-depth breakdown, I will be happy to add to this. For now, let’s keep it simple.

I said earlier you need to really loosen up. True, you still need to play decent poker, but you need to reconsider what decent poker is. You really should see a flop, with any two starting cards, cash or tournament play. For the most part, if any part of the flop hits you, try to get as many chips as you can into the pot. Most of the action on this site is heads up. Exception would be in the later stages of a tournament, when your ranking is decent, and you have a strong chip count. Bear in mind, you start EVERY HAND with the same amount of chips. So, if you go all in on one hand and lose, you can recover on the next hand. The tournaments are structured with a set number of hands per round, and usually are 2 rounds.

I strongly suggest you stay far away from the “No rank shown” tournaments. You will have no idea how well you are doing, against your mirror player (s). I have seen players win or place 2nd with (-) negative 12,000 chips. That’s right; they WON a tournament, with a negative chip count! I have pulled off some amazing suck outs, and at times played good poker, and lost. The only thing that matters is if your mirror(s) play worse then you.

The concept of “skill based poker” is deceptive in my opinion. Poker is a skill game by nature, and playing good poker, usually results in a profit, over the long haul. Playing good poker on this site, you will get nickled and dimed to death. You can raise pre-flop with strong pairs, and if the bot doesn’t call you, but your mirrors bot calls him, you are in trouble. Especially if the pair holds up, or improves. You can have the winning hand, and lose. That isn’t skill based. That is slot machine or lotto scratch off odds based.

Overall, Duplicate Poker has a decent, simple site. The interactive tutorials are well made, but confusing and deceptive. Their customer support, at least via email, is poor. I have sent 2 emails, one regarding my bonus, and one regarding a problem with my email account, asking them to re-send the initial emails. The email regarding my bonus, has been opened, but never heard a reply. The other email, it took them almost 24 hrs, but they did welcome me to their affiliate program. I have not tried their 800# yet. If and when I do, I will update.

You have no idea how many players are on their site at any one time. You have no idea how many cash/ring games are going on, and they have a bunch of games that they promise will be “coming soon”.

They should seriously consider hiring prop players who have a good grasp on the game variation concept. Prop players who will answer questions for the live players, and offer them action like a real player would, instead of the flawed programming Bots they currently have. Their Customer service needs a good kick in the ass, when a new player who deposited, and played as much as I did, send an email, it should at least get an auto reply. My email has a tag in it, so I can see when it was delivered, and when it was opened. So I know for a fact, they have gotten my emails.

A serious look needs to be taken at their inconsistencies in regards to hand histories, and a better explanation of tournament payout structures. I have no idea how things like this could have slipped through the cracks, but unless my computer is infected with something, what happens during play, and what is recorded as record are two very different things.

I have not made a withdraw request yet. I am waiting until I get to $200.00. Once I do, I will follow up with how that process works.

One last note, and if you are going to play on this site you need to pay attention. If you play the ring game, you have to click the “Sit out next hand” box when you want to leave that game. If you simply click “Leave Table” you will indeed leave, but your bankroll stays, and you continue to play. You will auto fold after time out of 10 seconds, until you no longer have at least $2.00 to play with. This is a serious flaw. I don’t know of any other online poker room that has this. Every one I play at, when you leave the table, you LEAVE THE TABLE, with whatever bankroll you have left. So make double doggie sure, you click the “sit out next hand” box before you leave.

Overall, I would grade Duplicate Poker a C- (C minus). There are some easy steps to take on their part that would quickly move them into a B.

1. Hire Prop players that will converse with the live players, and answer questions.

2. Rapid response to emails.

3. Offer a live chat, or have a community chat that is monitored by a customer service rep.

4. A better explanation and easy to understand bonus program. They advertise 100% bonus, and they are clear about how to make that bonus, but as of now, I have been unable to figure out if I got a bonus or not.

5. Show how many players are online. Show how many tables and how many players are playing the ring games. The current method of sitting down with a Bot, and waiting for the game to start isn’t very good. I would like to see the tables, and number of players, so I don’t have to sit and wait. If there is no game then fine, but at least let me find out and decide on my own.

6. Increase the dollar amounts and buy- ins on some of your tournaments. You can and will draw players, who will use skill to play.

There are other ideas and suggestions I have. I think I have rambled on for long enough for now. I will follow up with my withdraw story, assuming I have one. I also hope some of the other members here will chime in with their 2 cents.

My user name is Ronin. I have written this review based upon my own personal experience and play at Duplicate Poker. I assume full responsibility for the content of my review. If legitimate facts are presented, causing me to change my opinion, I will.

Thank you for reading my thoughts on this site. I look forward to seeing you at the tables!

[The Ronin]

So, Thursday July 12th 2007, I decide to give Duplicate Pokers 800# a try.

It doesn't work. I got a series of long rings, and then it would hang up!

Well, they have a direct dial number. It is long distance, but I figured why not. A very pleasant lady answered, and we chatted for a few minutes. She was nice, but totally unable to assist me. She had no access to my account, or anyones account, all she could do was take a message! I told her about the emails I had sent, and asked her to request information regarding my bonus.

It is Sunday, and as of yet, I have heard nothing. No email, and no phone call.

Their main site claims to have 24/7 support.

If you have questions, comments or suggestions, feel free to contact us anytime at:

306-564-2745
800-431-2698
customercare@duplicatepoker.com

So I am not interested in the "we don't work on weekends" load.

I have sent several emails, and now I have called them. I was told my questions and concerns would be marked as "High Priority" by the answering service.

It would appear that was a waste of time.

My email is not blocking their emails, my spam filter is off, and the affiliate welcome email came through with no problems. So the "Your email server must be blocking our letters" is not going to be a valid excuse either.

This seems to be a total lack of customer/player support. It is unacceptable to advertise "24/7 live support" and not be able to do more then write a trouble or issue ticket. The nice lady at the answering service did give me an "issue number" of 2236. Whatever I am supposed to do with that, I have no idea.

The amount of ring game rake, and tournament fees I have paid, should have cleared any bonus I was eligible for. I have 73 bonus points. I have played a total of 508 ring game hands. Each hand was raked a total of 5 cents. I have played 25 tournaments, with fees ranging from 10 cents to 75 cents. I have played 9 sit-n-go tournaments, with fees ranging from 10 cents to 50 cents.

I would estimate my total rake generation to be right around $40.00.

No, it is certainly not high roller status, but the limits they offer, you would have to live on their site to generate much more then that for the few days I have been playing there.

What it breaks down to is this. My rake generation almost equals my total initial deposit. All-in-all, duplicate poker is ahead at this point. So why in the hell is it so hard to give me a simple email reply when I have a question?

Why would you advertise "24/7 live support" when it is nothing more then an answering service?

At this point I am hesitant to attempt a withdraw. The banner at the top of this forum says "100% deposit bonus until June 30th" So maybe it is no longer offered. Except Duplicate poker.coms main site has the 100% initial deposit all over the place, with no "Until June 30th" anywhere.

I don't know about this place folks! They just went from a C- to a D in my book.

I will update if and when I attempt a withdraw.

[The Ronin]

Ok, I have resent my emails to their customer support.

I have PMd and emailed the poker room rep on this forum.

Since my customer experience with this company has been less then acceptable, I started digging. I have found a laundry list of outstanding issues, both technical and customer service related, posted across several sites. One does not need to wander far however. A quick view of Duplicate Pokers own forum, is an eye-opening experience.

Duplicate poker enjoys prime ad space on this site. So I am crossing my fingers and hoping the poker room rep here steps up to the plate, and starts to respond.

How does a poker room become an "accredited" poker room? How do I choose who is presented here?

They must be able to take care of any player issue swiftly and professionally

They must provide rapid response to customer support queries - telephone, live chat or email response - from thoughtful, well informed CSR's and support staff available 24/7.

They must adhere to their own posted payment processing schedule

This is a big one. I have been in email contact and thusfar 1 telephone conversation with people that claim they are well beyond the 14-21 day wait for their withdraws.

[Duplicate Poker]

Please forgive the delay in responding, but there are many issues raised and I wanted to do some homework before responding. I will try to address all the major points, starting with the most important - cashouts.

We process cashouts at least once a week and most of our customers are very satisfied with this time frame. When there are issues with cashouts it is usually over the W9 - either we haven't received it or we received it incomplete or unsigned. As a US corporation bound by US laws we are required to follow this procedure. As with any business, there are occasional miscues. And there are sometimes issues that I won't go into on a public forum. But by and large there is no problem with cashouts.

A close second in importance, in my opinion, is customer support, and on this count we can only plead guilty. I have spent the last week helping catch up with the backlog, and from this point on, I will stay fully involved in bringing our customer support up to the level our customers deserve. And this is not idle talk. As long as I stay involved with this company my number one objective will be to elevate customer support.

Next, and it would rank higher if I believed it true, is the contention that leaving the table without "sitting out" will cause your bankroll to be depleted. I know of a case or two where the funds on the table somehow stayed at the table, which is clearly a bug that needs to be fixed, but I have never seen a complaint of a bankroll being "blinded off" after the player leaves the table. I'm a firm believer that anything is possible, but I have to believe we would be inundated with complaints if that were happening. I will take this to the tech team.

As for the tournament payouts, I have seen a few complaints on the payout formulas, for the most part I'm not a big fan of them myself, but I haven't seen any evidence that the payouts don't match the formulas (other than a few ill-advised satellites and freerolls that won't be repeated), nor has our QA tester. While I believe that the 'The Ronin' has done a fair and mostly objective job of reviewing our site, I think all would have been better served in this instance had he provided concrete examples rather than impugn our honesty. I will take this too to the tech team.

On the hand history issue, we had problems with this for several weeks not long ago, but I thought they had been resolved, our resident QA tester says that it is working fine for him. Another for the tech team.

The bots are a necessary evil until we grow to the point that we no longer need them to start games. And they do excuse themselves as soon as the game has at least four players.

We have had discussions on hiring props, and we are leaning that way. No decision yet though.

Lastly, the question of Duplicate Poker as a "skill game". What we have done is remove the "luck of the draw" from the game of poker. Now you can catch rags all day and still win, even if you're not Eskimo or Gus Hansen. As suggested, the skill set may not be what you expected, but without the "luck of the draw", what else can it be but skill?

[The Ronin]

I am surprised and very pleased to see a reply. You have addressed the major points, and not tried to skirt the issues. For that, I thank you.

We process cashouts at least once a week and most of our customers are very satisfied with this time frame. When there are issues with cashouts it is usually over the W9 - either we haven't received it or we received it incomplete or unsigned. As a US corporation bound by US laws we are required to follow this procedure. As with any business, there are occasional miscues. And there are sometimes issues that I won't go into on a public forum. But by and large there is no problem with cashouts.

Ok, I could be satisfied with that structure, and hopefully soon I will be making a cashout. Is the W9 needed for total withdraws under the $600.00 mark? Or are they needed for any withdraw?

Also in the PM and email I sent you, I directed your attention to the forum run by duplicate poker, where there is a long outstanding complaint of a no pay/no communicate. It would probably help matters some, if your forum was more closely moderated, and issues posted there had clear rapid responses from knowledgeable reps.

You have to look at things from the prospective of a current or future player. Everyone knows that nothing is perfect. So we do expect to see problems from time-to-time, but these problems legitimate or otherwise, should be addressed. Especially in your own forum.

A close second in importance, in my opinion, is customer support, and on this count we can only plead guilty. I have spent the last week helping catch up with the backlog, and from this point on, I will stay fully involved in bringing our customer support up to the level our customers deserve. And this is not idle talk. As long as I stay involved with this company my number one objective will be to elevate customer support.

That statement is the most important and refreshing thing you could have said. Most likely you will keep me as a player for a very long time, if you live up to your words. I have little doubt you will.

In my opinion, it takes a strong sense of customer service to admit you are wrong, and more importantly to lay out a plan of action to correct that wrong. You strike me as a hands on manager, who is willing to get involved to affect change for the better. Thank you. and I hope we can establish a long term relationship as your site and concept continue to grow.

Next, and it would rank higher if I believed it true, is the contention that leaving the table without "sitting out" will cause your bankroll to be depleted. I know of a case or two where the funds on the table somehow stayed at the table, which is clearly a bug that needs to be fixed, but I have never seen a complaint of a bankroll being "blinded off" after the player leaves the table. I'm a firm believer that anything is possible, but I have to believe we would be inundated with complaints if that were happening. I will take this to the tech team.

It is not a contention, it is a fact. If you click leave table, your bankroll that you sat down with at that seat, either up or down, still plays. I learned this the hard way. After I made my initial deposit, I clicked around trying to find a game. Once I found one, I started to play. I got up from the table by clicking "leave table" and left the room where my computer is. I was in the bathroom, and heard "Dealing the next hand" Needless to say, I raced back to the computer and saw I had just folded. I have tried this several times, just to verify it does indeed happen. I can say without a shadow of a doubt, it does.

To directly address this statement:

I have never seen a complaint of a bankroll being "blinded off" after the player leaves the table

From my limited amount of play, I have rarely seen people bring more then $5-$10.00 to the ring games. It is entirely possible that they are leaving the games, without clicking the "sit out next hand" button, logging off the site, and not realizing they are still getting action. I tried this exact scenario, and it does indeed happen. I left the table, logged off the site, closed my internet connection, reconnected and logged back into the site, and saw I had folded several hands. It is possible that the issue has been corrected since I have done this. It is also possible, that the amount of ring players is so small, that the issue has gone unnoticed.

As for the tournament payouts, I have seen a few complaints on the payout formulas, for the most part I'm not a big fan of them myself, but I haven't seen any evidence that the payouts don't match the formulas (other than a few ill-advised satellites and freerolls that won't be repeated), nor has our QA tester. While I believe that the 'The Ronin' has done a fair and mostly objective job of reviewing our site, I think all would have been better served in this instance had he provided concrete examples rather than impugn our honesty. I will take this too to the tech team.

I tried to be clear on my analysis of this issue. If it even is an issue. I said:

I have won several of their tournaments, and not won what the payout structure said was to be paid for 1st place. Again, I have no idea why, perhaps it is something I am missing with the variation of the game.

The payout formula is different and it is based upon several factors. If it is possible to change the payout structure during the course of the tournament, then fine, but I think this should be disclosed up front. As for examples, I don't know how to take screen shots, I will learn and email you examples. You tech team should be able to check payout histories and quickly find this.

I think all would have been better served in this instance had he provided concrete examples rather than impugn our honesty.

You are correct. I should have used a better phrase then questioning honesty, and I apologize. I am human, and I make mistakes

We have had discussions on hiring props, and we are leaning that way. No decision yet though.

By and large, you will find most poker players do not mind playing against prop players. We know props play with their own bankroll, are skilled players as a result, and offer much tighter action then a free roll winner looking to clear the roll over requirements to cash out. We understand the need for these players, and for the most part, welcome their action. Since all money is good money at the table!

Bots on the other hand, they are nameless faceless creatures, that are the epitome of everything that is bad with internet poker. Harsh, but for those of us that have played poker online for years, you will be hard pressed to find dissension to that opinion.

If the kinks are worked out, and you continue to address the issues like you have here, I would be willing to prop for your site. Like I said, the concept it interesting, the game is fun. You just have some kinks to work out. No this is not a pitch for a job either. Duplicate poker grows on you after you play there for awhile, and I am extremely pleased to see an aggressive approach to legitimate customer issues.

Lastly, the question of Duplicate Poker as a "skill game". What we have done is remove the "luck of the draw" from the game of poker. Now you can catch rags all day and still win, even if you're not Eskimo or Gus Hansen. As suggested, the skill set may not be what you expected, but without the "luck of the draw", what else can it be but skill?

I have played in enough tournaments to say that skill CAN be a factor. I have developed a certain strategy, that is useful against certain players. That said, and I know you are sick of the Bot lecture, this scenario says skill isn't an issue:

Me vs. Big John. Ring game, 1 mirror each:

I have Pocket kings on the small blind. I raise to 3 times the Big Blind. Big John folds, like he almost always does, but my mirror gets a call from Texas Boyle.

Because of an ace on the flop, they both check. Turn is a King, my mirror bets the pot, Tex calls, like he usually does no matter what he has, and the river is a blank. My mirror goes all in, Tex calls, and my mirror wins. I lose, simply because the Bot refused to call pre-flop. Even though I won the hand, against the table I played on, I lose money because the loose bot calls with anything! Is that skill? Or is that luck of the bot?

I have seen players fold every single hand during a tournament, and still manage to win. They didn't play at all, didn't win any chips, and somehow still manage to win or at least advance to the second round. It is frustrating to play at tables like this, especially when you have 5 mirrors, who at least some of them are getting action. You can outplay, bluff and or have the best hand, but if you are not getting action, you will lose.

For now, I am willing to agree to disagree with the skill based scenario. At least until you get more players. Which you will, if you continue to offer rapid response to issues, like you did here.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my review. I hope we will chat again.

[The Ronin]

Update on duplicate poker.

I haven't made a withdraw request yet. No need, my balance is low and I have fun playing occasionally.

I did get a nasty surprise with last months phone bill It seems their "support number", which you may recall is little more then an answering service, is based in Canada. Which means my 3 minute call, cost me over 5 bucks. I wasn't impressed with that.

What did impress me, is the new version of Duplicate Poker. They made some big time changes, and it appears they are starting to attract players.

I hope they can keep up the good work, and I sincerely hope they have fixed the issues with their Customer support.

[dominique]

An more updates on this?

How is customer service?

[catrina m]

Is the Duplicate poker rep a one time poster?

[winbig]

Is the Duplicate poker rep a one time poster?

Almost a month since their last visit.....

I don't like the idea of the W9. Do they take into account your NET winnings, or GROSS winnings when reporting you to the IRS?

Section 6109 of the Internal Revenue Code requires you to provide your correct TIN to persons who must file information returns
with the IRS to report interest, dividends, and certain other income paid to you, mortgage interest you paid, the acquisition or
abandonment of secured property, cancellation of debt, or contributions you made to an IRA, or Archer MSA or HSA. The IRS
uses the numbers for identification purposes and to help verify the accuracy of your tax return. The IRS may also provide this
information to the Department of Justice for civil and criminal litigation, and to cities, states, the District of Columbia, and U.S.
possessions to carry out their tax laws. We may also disclose this information to other countries under a tax treaty, to federal
and state agencies to enforce federal nontax criminal laws, or to federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies to combat
terrorism.

I love that last line.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf

[pokeraddict]

A few posters at 2+2 have complained that although it is advertised as a skill game after the first hand there are different situations at each table that make it impossible to compare the chip counts and say they came from the same "skill". Also they complain the software is painfully slow and it is easy to collude since people at other tables can tell you on IM what the guy next to you has.

It seems the only way to make this truly skill based is if bots are in every seat but one at a table.