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Thread: Help please advise. Self exclusion and losses.

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    Help please advise. Self exclusion and losses.

    I'll start by saying im a compulsive gambler, with some mental issues. I will not name the sites concerned until I have given them a proper chance at resolving the matter.

    In October 2015 I excluded from Site A (incidentally after losing a big four figure sum in a day on a credit card, ofcourse drunk) for a period of 5 years. I simultaneously excluded from a number of sites, and was completely gambling free for a while. However I returned to it about 15 months ago.

    Most recently I've been playing in my means and despite a couple of huge blips, have been satisfied with the high quality sites such as casinoland and trada- relatively under control.

    Seeking a bonus and more specifically cashback....I signed up to Site B (unaware ofcourse that they are part of the same group as Site A) five days ago.

    I won £214 from my initial £20 deposit. This was processed, as I sent my ID (still not flagged).


    Last night I got super drunk and lost approximately £1000 with them. I'm ashamed yes I took money that didn't belong to me via PayPal as I chased the losses (I'll have to face the shame and consequences of that shortly). I was suicidal for a while, until I noticed a familiar name on my online statement as I figured our what to do. The holding company of Site A had put money into my account and taken it.... Then it clicked Site B was owned by Site A! How and why I was able to get an account in the first place is beyond me ...surely they have some responsibility given my previous losses and how they publicize responsible gambling all over TV?

    I emailed and rang them up and this morning asking for a refund of all deposits minus my withdrawal.... Since I realize had I won £1000 no doubt I wouldn't have received it.

    The customer rep wasn't much help, couldn't refund, used your money, etc. However the conversation did verify that I wouldn't have received my funds had I won, especially such an amount 'Your account would have been flagged in the next few days- takes a few days sometimes'. Got me more angry.

    Then I sent off an email to the managers email.... Currently awaiting a response. It was a bit harshly worded with the threat of going to the gambling commission, Ecogra and small claims court (I was angry at myself, but also them). Thankfully they are regulated.


    I'm confident of based on what I read that with the will return the money, its a huge organisation, though not hugely accredited- all bets, deposits and withdrawals are voided surely? All legitimate casinos would behave in this way I have read.

    Am I right to be optimistic? I was told net deposits are £814 (I can't check since my account was blocked after I rang them).

    If they don't resolve this promptly am I right to do a chargeback, will I get it and will the bank agree? The gaming contract is nulled and voided.

    I ofcou accept responsiblity the drink, compulsive gambling issue and my underlying bipolar for this also.

    However the point remains. No doubt had I won £1000, or made any further withdrawal I would have been flagged on the system and I wouldn't have received the winnings (I've never disputed anything in my long gambling career)... As i say this was confirmed by the rep I spoke to who said my account would have been flagged shortly (it can take a while).

    Any help and advice is appreciated. Thanks for reading.

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    UKGC regulations state that bets of a SE'ed player have to be voided and the account returned to its original state as if no bets have been placed.

    We have seen casino groups interpreting this in different ways. Most return the deposits, some keep them. The regulations do not state that it is mandatory to return deposits, only the above which is quite a weak formulation.

    However, they also state that a licensed operator has to put procedures in place that a SE'ed gambler cannot register another account. At most groups this has become meanwhile instant the soon you try to register, still some however will do crosschecks only after you submitted a withdrawal or do them in regular intervals meaning it can be days before they realize you have SE'ed at Site A.

    Either way, if you do not receive a satisfactory answer then see if they are accredited at
    CM
    and then PM their rep for assistance. In case that fails you can try a
    PAB
    which is a free mediation service offered here at
    CM
    . Click on "Player Arbitration
    FAQ
    " on the top for more details.
    Last edited by Harry_BKK; 7th January 2017 at 07:49 PM. Reason: spelling

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    As much as I 90% tend to side with players, sorry but you're not going to like my answer on this one, maybe I've misunderstood things a little, if that's the case then ignore my post, If not I apologise for my truthfulness regarding my feelings on this one.

    I think you've used this ruling as a loophole after dropping a HUGE bollock!

    We've all has those 'under the influence' sessions when we sober up, we think "
    WTF
    ! have I done" however the casinos didn't pour the booze down our necks.

    I feel for anyone who suffers with any form of illness, whether a short or a life term thing but sadly we cannot blame that either. If Casinos really wanted to push the boat out I suppose they could say "Where does it say in our
    T&C
    's that players with illnesses are entitled to refunds"

    I feel my way of thinking has been swayed by other cases where players have lost too much and then pulled the Self-excluded get my dosh back stunt so I may be being harsh a little but looking at the surface of your case, sadly this is how it comes across.

    To stay withing UKGC regulations you may get lucky this time and the casinos hand maybe forced to fulfill the refund of deposits, I would however at least learn from this moving forward and tread very carefully in the future.

    In closing I will promise my opinion and thoughts are not personal and as I say mainly based on previous experience and situations encountered on here. I do however wish you the best of luck for an amicable outcome!
    On a losing Streak?? - Take a break, Eases the pain, Keeps you Sane!

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    [QUOTE=Harry_BKK;807585]UKGC regulations state that bets of a SE'ed player have to be voided and the account returned to its original state as if no bets have been placed.

    We have seen casino groups interpreting this in different ways. Most return the deposits, some keep them. The regulations do not state that it is mandatory to return deposits, only the above which is quite a weak formulation.

    However, they also state that a licensed operator has to put procedures in place that a SE'ed gambler cannot register another account. At most groups this has become meanwhile instant the soon you try to register, still some however will do crosschecks only after you submitted a withdrawal or do them in regular intervals meaning it can be days before they realize you have SE'ed at Site A.

    Either way, if you do not receive a satisfactory answer then see if they are accredited at
    CM
    and then PM their rep for assistance. In case that fails you can try a
    PAB
    which is a free mediation service offered here at
    CM
    . Click on "Player Arbitration
    FAQ
    " on the top for more details.[response]

    Thank you so much for this response, it helps. They are not accredited at
    CM
    , I think
    CM
    generally has frowned upon the holding company. However I have seen they are seeking to enhance their reputation in forums, ratings and reviews.

    Neither does the company have a rep here or so I believe from looking round the site. Thanks again will take on board the advice. Hopefully it doesn't come to mediation etc. I honestly don't see how they could defend pretty basic procedures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono777 View Post
    As much as I 90% tend to side with players, sorry but you're not going to like my answer on this one, maybe I've misunderstood things a little, if that's the case then ignore my post, If not I apologise for my truthfulness regarding my feelings on this one.

    I think you've used this ruling as a loophole after dropping a HUGE bollock!

    We've all has those 'under the influence' sessions when we sober up, we think "
    WTF
    ! have I done" however the casinos didn't pour the booze down our necks.

    I feel for anyone who suffers with any form of illness, whether a short or a life term thing but sadly we cannot blame that either. If Casinos really wanted to push the boat out I suppose they could say "Where does it say in our
    T&C
    's that players with illnesses are entitled to refunds"

    I feel my way of thinking has been swayed by other cases where players have lost too much and then pulled the Self-excluded get my dosh back stunt so I may be being harsh a little but looking at the surface of your case, sadly this is how it comes across.

    To stay withing UKGC regulations you may get lucky this time and the casinos hand maybe forced to fulfill the refund of deposits, I would however at least learn from this moving forward and tread very carefully in the future.

    In closing I will promise my opinion and thoughts are not personal and as I say mainly based on previous experience and situations encountered on here. I do however wish you the best of luck for an amicable outcome!
    Not at all sir, I'm not sure what is implied. Regardless thanks for your wishes. I hope so too, I'm a bit calmer than I was earlier.

    Maybe in some ways you are right, with the alcohol.....but point remains surely if I had won they would have pulled the self exclusion stunt. I would bitterly but obviously accepted the loss had it been a fair gamble, have done every time in the past. But it wasn't.

    I actually upon reading more and more agree that they will likely cooperate since they still neglected their duties in terms of what the most basic procedures licensees should be adhering too...that they will reverse the deposits, though it may take a couple weeks I guess.

    Oh unfortunately the mental illness is real though I'm working on it....not so successfully at times but I hope I get there. Bipolar. However I accept its some what irrelevant.

    Ultimately I know I have a problem hence why I self excluded for 5 years from their main site....surely they should uphold the exclusion it, seeing they certainly would have uphelded it had I won. Now that is relevant I believe.

    Thanks for your input once again. Hopefully it works out OK, and more so your advice...I can't live life like this for too much longer. Regardless of outcome I need to put a stop to this once and for all.

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    Unfortunately as we see with the EMSEB issue, the flaccid UKGC rules exacerbate a serious issue. While slapping themselves on the back for forcing pointless autoplay rules upon casinos and players, they have epic fails as regards SE. Most casinos exercise due diligence and will flag your account before you get chance to deposit. Some groups don't and use it to their advantage to take no-risk deposits - win and they won't pay when they miraculously flag you upon cashing-out, lose and they at worst refund the deposits.

    IF the casino has put in writing you wouldn't have been paid then your purchase of chips was void. Simple as. Go to the casino and point it out, if that fails go to your payment provider. If that fails use the County Court system.

    Whether the player is trying it on or not is irrelevant - the system is wrong to allow it. Close this loophole in the UKGC rules and EMSEB and stories like the
    OP
    's would stop overnight.

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    Can you name the casino?

    there may be people here who can help

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    Quote Originally Posted by dunover View Post

    Whether the player is trying it on or not is irrelevant - the system is wrong to allow it. Close this loophole in the UKGC rules and EMSEB and stories like the
    OP
    's would stop overnight.

    Couldn't agree more but the temptation or risk (for want of better wording) for extra "Under the radar income" will win over the simple and obvious solution which has been staring them in the face from the start
    On a losing Streak?? - Take a break, Eases the pain, Keeps you Sane!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dunover View Post
    Unfortunately as we see with the EMSEB issue, the flaccid UKGC rules exacerbate a serious issue. While slapping themselves on the back for forcing pointless autoplay rules upon casinos and players, they have epic fails as regards SE. Most casinos exercise due diligence and will flag your account before you get chance to deposit. Some groups don't and use it to their advantage to take no-risk deposits - win and they won't pay when they miraculously flag you upon cashing-out, lose and they at worst refund the deposits.

    IF the casino has put in writing you wouldn't have been paid then your purchase of chips was void. Simple as. Go to the casino and point it out, if that fails go to your payment provider. If that fails use the County Court system.

    Whether the player is trying it on or not is irrelevant - the system is wrong to allow it. Close this loophole in the UKGC rules and EMSEB and stories like the
    OP
    's would stop overnight.
    Thank you for your advice. But that's just it Buddy, I wasn't trying it on. I had no idea that they were the same group. I only signed up to it to get cashback via one of the major cashback sites. E.g. deposit and wager £20ish get that as cashback. Then the compulsive gambler takes over....

    Btw What is EMSEB?

    Unfortunately I don't have it in writing though the CS woman on the phone said my account would have been flagged in the next few days. Irrespective I couldn't/wouldn't have been able to withdraw winnings from yesterday- no doubt that.

    If only I could turn back- typical compulsive gambler thinking. Whilst I'm confident I'll get the money, the headache of all it, stress, etc.....meh. Though perhaps finally this time I'll quit for good.

    Anyway is the bank the payment provider or visa?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi26 View Post
    Can you name the casino?

    there may be people here who can help
    Not just yet, I do wish to give them the opportunity to settle this matter amicably and promptly first.

    Though thanks. I been reading all day on the forum, and the holding site concerned have been guilty of this before- seems like they like a problem gambler returning.

    I also read advice on how some got their money back from them. But yeah thanks....if it isn't sorted by the end of the week will post the name.

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