Originally Posted by
heador112
I doubt they will give me the list but i will try to get it .
So what would you do in my position ? It it a waste of time to contact the GRA ?
YES!!!
In many cases, online operators expect complainants to give up. Often, their last chance was coming to a place such as Casinomeister, having already given up hope of pursuing the complaint themselves, to find that the PAB service was there to give them hope. It is FACT that PAB has brought justice to many players wrongly screwed out of winnings by operators, as well as FACT that the PAB service has caught out fraudsters, who might have continued to masquerade as innocent wronged players had they just continued to "bitch & moan" in forums.
Cassava looks pretty dodgy right now, and IF they are running what looks like a secret policy of limiting the number of accounts individual players may have across all sites run by Cassava (what I think is behind the "serious security bullshit" that has lead to the claims of "fraud" by them against the OP), they surely MUST provide prospective players with the information that the site they are about to deposit into IS indeed run by Cassava, and that they should therefore NOT proceed in making an account.
The way Cassava currently operate in this respect is potentially rogue, since they are able to keep their mouth shut if the new player with other Cassava accounts loses, but can pull "serious security issues" when they win. This is a no-risk way for the casino to make money whilst having no risk they will lose. If a PLAYER operated in this way, they are called FRAUDSTERS, because a PLAYER's method of "confiscating winnings" is to issue a chargeback for their losses.
There is, of course, the SLOW method- which is based on the fact that Cassava operated sites will all be using Cassava software. This can be deduced BEFORE having to give details to register a REAL MONEY account, either by merely viewing the installation itself, or registering a FUN account.
Other ways may be search engine based, such as looking for a search phrase that might only appear on a Cassava casino website - this might be the name of a popular slot game, for example, and then the resulting results can be checked to see whether they are indeed a Cassava site.
If Cassava are so large as to "own" the Gibraltar regulatory authorities, this is VERY bad for the industry, and adds to the list of regulatory bodies who seem dependent on the licensing revenue to the point of allowing the rules to be broken rather than risk losing the revenue.
IF Cassava are behaving in this way by attempting to "buy" their way past the need to obey the rules in Gibraltar, what does this mean for player's confidence in eCogra, where Cassava is one of the founding operators. There has already been some heated discussion as to whether it is possible to "buy" favourable decisions through wielding financial power over eCogra, with supporters of eCogra quick to assure players that the current set-up there prevents any one self-interested group from calling the shots. Where we have the situation developing that even governments, such as Malta and Gibraltar, can be "bought" by big players in the industry, how can it be PROVED to the doubters that bodies such as eCogra really CANNOT be compromised in the same way.
This case already shows the shortcomings, as whilst Cassava ARE both sealholders, and part founders, eCogra will NOT hear the case against Racing Post casino since this particular offshoot does not have a seal. I believe this is a loophole - the situation is NOT the same, say, as Microgaming where some of it's casinos have the seal, and some don't. Cassava don't merely supply the software, they OPERATE these casinos, so surely either the ENTIRE Cassava network should qualify for the seal, or NONE of them should get it. Players should be equally protected WHATEVER the particular Cassava operated skin they happen to have issues with.
Back to the issue at hand. Making a formal complaint to the GRA may not get you far, BUT it will STILL give you a better chance than the "do nothing" approach. It is the same with many issues between consumers and business. Persistent complainants can get justice merely by being persistent, and thus maybe a potential PR embarrassment.
The GRA is not the only route either, it is merely the FIRST. The route that casinos hardly ever have to face, yet fear the most, is being taken to court. This is common with many other businesses.
Here in the UK, there has been a running battle over bank charges being unfair. It was ONE MAN that set the ball rolling, and the banks stand to lose BILLIONS. This one man did the unthinkable, he took his bank to court claiming the charges were unfair, and he used the old consumer contracts laws. The bank was scared enough to pay up - because they feared that if they LOST the case, it would set a precedent, and they faced refunding EVERYBODY. Currently, the banks have more or less given up hope of winning, and are now fighting something that could cost them even more.
The hope here is that IF a casino thought a player was serious about taking them to court, they would review their decision, and certainly in cases of this type (woolly allegations of "bonus abuse"), they would be unable to prove their case beyond the balance of probabilities, whereas the player COULD provide ABSOLUTE proof that the terms and conditions as published were followed WITHOUT breach. It would probably never even get this far, as the likely outcome would be the proposal of an "out of court settlement", where upon receipt of the summons, the casino would send payment of the disputed amount. This would, of course, result in the player being considered "dangerous" in the sense that they are NOT one to take getting screwed over lightly.
I do not know yet of a case where an ONLINE casino has been taken to court, but OFFline, it has happened, and one famous case resulted in the casino LOSING. I believe it was the CASINO that took a player to court for return of winnings because the player "cheated". The player was certainly guilty of "advantage play". It was something to do with a laser device recording a roulette wheel - predicting the likely quadrant the ball would land in, and placing last minute bets accordingly. The casino LOST because this device merely MEASURED the game machinery, it did not "interfere with the outcome" in any way
Most online casinos have something in their general terms that provide for them being taken to court, and usually this lays out the jurisdiction they specify will hear the case. This is probably because they EXPECT to be the DEFENDANT, as whenever they are themselves the complainant, they bypass the courts, and simply confiscate the winnings.
Empty Fruities Astern Capt'n
Back to port for unloading.
Full Sails - before we get raided ourselves.
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks