Locked Account at Royal Vegas & Vegas Towers

[cbe2869]

Received separate email from both these informing me that my account had been locked. I guess winning is a suspicious activity as that is the only suspicious activity I would have commited at either of these sites. I just posted this because this casino group is accredited by Casinomeister. I do not have money at either. I have played at both in the past and succesfully cashed out at both but have not played at either now for several months. Locking accounts for no reason though is ridiculous.

Hi

We regret to inform you that your Casino account at Royal Vegas has been locked due to suspicious activities taking place on your account. You may receive an email requesting you to return verification documents, which we require to re-open your casino account. However, if you do not receive such a request, we will not be reconsidering the status of the account and it will remain locked as this decision was made after a thorough investigation on this account.

As stated in our Terms and Conditions any attempted cash-ins on this account will not be processed and balances from winnings will be removed.

Regards ,
Fortune Lounge Player Security

Contact us for assistance:
Email: [email protected]

 

[The Dude]

Received separate email from both these informing me that my account had been locked. I guess winning is a suspicious activity as that is the only suspicious activity I would have commited at either of these sites. I just posted this because this casino group is accredited by Casinomeister. I do not have money at either. I have played at both in the past and succesfully cashed out at both but have not played at either now for several months. Locking accounts for no reason though is ridiculous.

Hi

We regret to inform you that your Casino account at Royal Vegas has been locked due to suspicious activities taking place on your account. You may receive an email requesting you to return verification documents, which we require to re-open your casino account. However, if you do not receive such a request, we will not be reconsidering the status of the account and it will remain locked as this decision was made after a thorough investigation on this account.

As stated in our Terms and Conditions any attempted cash-ins on this account will not be processed and balances from winnings will be removed.

Regards ,
Fortune Lounge Player Security

Contact us for assistance:
Email: [email protected]

Please PAB and I'll look into this for you. It's either two things a) they made a mistake or b) they didn't make a mistake and there is something seriously funky about your account.

Winning is not a supicious activity, but things associated with player fraud is. Please PAB - in fact, you should have done that first before posting.

 

[The Dude]

There is also a must read section here:
Link Outdated / Removed

You should PAB and contact the Casino Rep when posting complaints. Thanks!

 

[cbe2869]

Royal Vegas/Vegas Towers

Winning is not a supicious activity, but things associated with player fraud is. Please PAB - in fact, you should have done that first before posting.

No fraud here so that is not the case. Apparently this is a wave of account closings at this group. Other at 2+2 have reported the same thing in this thread:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[suzecat]

Received snail mail from this group last week with a CD. I think they only allow one account across the group. Have multiple accounts ever been mentioned?

 

[cbe2869]

Royal Vegas/Vegas Towers

Multiple accounts in the group have not been mentioned in any of the emails. They have allowed multiple accounts for the group in the past to the best of my knowledge.

 

[The Dude]

Their casino rep is here on a daily basis. Have you PMd him? If not, why not?

 

[cbe2869]

Royal Vegas/Vegas Towers

Why not? I don't have anything to ask him. I'm not asking that my accounts be re-opened. I shouldn't have to and I won't. Nor will I conduct any future business with a group that engages in these kind of business practices. I will PM him though to make him aware of this thread if he is not already.

Why did I post this in the first place? I don't know anymore. Maybe because a casino just out of the blue closing accounts is not right. Maybe players who have never played there have a right to know that there account may just be closed for no reason for "suspicious activities." They may not be as lucky as I am an actually have money in there. "Suspicios activities" is a joke. I have not done anything wrong nor have I conveyed any inaccurate information in this forum.

I guess I shouldn't have complained about this in the first place since their group is among your holy grail of accredited casinos.

 

[cbe2869]

Royal Vegas/Vegas Towers

Despite my previous posts this is the first problem I have ever had with this group. I know they have been around for quite awhile and I have had zero problems in the past. What makes this the most disturbing for me is that despite the fact that I don't have any money in any of their casinos I do have some money in their poker room and was still playing there and had planned to continue playing there as it was one of my favorite microgaming poker sites.

 

[suzecat]

Multiple accounts in the group have not been mentioned in any of the emails. They have allowed multiple accounts for the group in the past to the best of my knowledge.

The problem is when the "free hour" promotion is used at more than one casino in the group. It can't be done honesty so it may be done "suspiciousy." Just a thought of what might be the problem with their promotion.

 

[The Dude]

...I guess I shouldn't have complained about this in the first place since their group is among your holy grail of accredited casinos.

You are incorrect here, and if would have spent about five minutes reading up on this site, and my relationship with FL, you wouldn't have made such a frivolous comment.

I expect members to read the MUST READ section before posting complaints. This forum is set up to solve problems. It is not here for bashing casinos at a whim or without any purpose but to bash. You post a problem; we try to solve it. There is a solution to most anything.

You say you've been locked out. That's some pretty serious shit. There are many players who have never had this experience. I know that FL does their due diligence, and that they do not lock players out on a whim. So it's probably beyond the typical "whoring" you've been involved with. But then again, they could be wrong. They've made mistakes in the past, and they will make mistakes in the future. What gives FL credence is that if and when they make mistakes, they will own up to it.

If you chose not to pursue a resolution to your problem, then go bitch and moan elsewhere. But if you want the people who can get to the bottom of things to get involved, then you've come to the right place. Just don't come prancing in here making off-the-cuff comments that are intended to piss me off. Thank you.

 

[cbe2869]

The problem is when the "free hour" promotion is used at more than one casino in the group. It can't be done honesty so it may be done "suspiciousy." Just a thought of what might be the problem with their promotion.

I can not speak for others who have had their accounts locked but that is not the case here.

 

[cbe2869]

Royal Vegas/Vegas Towers

ems. It is not here for bashing casinos at a whim or without any purpose but to bash.

I am not bashing anyone. I have not posted any information that is inaccurate or with any malicious intent. It is information that should be known if they choose to do business like this.

I know that FL does their due diligence, and that they do not lock players out on a whim. So it's probably beyond the typical "whoring" you've been involved with.

Why do you automatically assume i have "whored" them? I have not done anything fraudulent in any way. I don't have an army of garden gnomes with accounts there or anything of that nature.

Just don't come prancing in here making off-the-cuff comments that are intended to piss me off. Thank you.

I'm not trying to piss you off. Every reply you have made to my posts in this thread have been antagonistic. You say something short and unecesssary and then turn around and say well they could be wrong or they do make mistakes. I don't need your help. I'm not bitching or moaning. I thought and still do that players have a right to know this information. As a player advocate I would have expected you to be in agreement.

I have nothing else to add. If you don't delete this then I only hope it saves some player from making a mistake. Apparently accounts are closed for no reason at some highly regarded casinos.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Look

I have had a look at the 2+2 thread, and it looks like FL have been running an investigation, and have now acted upon a list of accounts that show up as suspicious.
IF it is only about "whoring", then FL have handled this very badly, as they have used the procedures for dealing with suspected fraud simply for dealing with "bonus whores". This only serves to fuel the view that "winning from a bonus" is itself fraud, which devalues the cries of fraud when casinos really get a good scamming. The proper way to deal with "whoring" is to send a player an e-mail containing a bonus ban, to rattle on about "suspicious activity on the account" is pretty much an accusation of fraud.

While this has happened to players who have cashed out ages ago, and not played since, making a proper PAB, following the rules, will at least force FL to investigate the handling of this affair, and justify their actions. This will lead to the player community being able to see whether FL are considered to have handled the situation well, or to have made a complete "balls-up" of it.

This "holy grail" operation was recently removed from the accredited list because they failed to deal properly with issues relating to their rogue affiliates resorting to spamming. They are back now because the spam has pretty much stopped.
Mini Vegas dealt badly with a "fraud ring", and went on a mass locking spree, then failed to communicate with anyone about it. This was the second time they did this in one year, and they even cut Casinomeister out of the loop. This earned them a spell in the "not recommended" section, the next best thing to a full "rogueing".

 

[WLVRYN]

FWIW, I got the same messages. I'm no fraudster, but I'll admit that I am a whore, so I'm sure that's where it came from.

 

[jerrylee]

Why not? I don't have anything to ask him. I'm not asking that my accounts be re-opened. I shouldn't have to and I won't. Nor will I conduct any future business with a group that engages in these kind of business practices.

I guess I shouldn't have complained about this in the first place since their group is among your holy grail of accredited casinos.

Sounds like another Rusty not wishing to comply with terms and conditions, and crying foul before giving the casino the benefit of the doubt to verify his account.

 

[jerrylee]

I have nothing else to add. If you don't delete this then I only hope it saves some player from making a mistake. Apparently accounts are closed for no reason at some highly regarded casinos.

cbe2869, are you Rusty's brother? Your last statement is bar none the most ridiculous accusation I've read here in a while. Accounts ARE closed for a reason and it's usually because of cheaters like you who want to sweep issues under the rug and just blast casino groups in public forums, because they feel like it, not because they have a legit claim.

 

[WLVRYN]

I'm not trying to start a flame war Jerrylee, but I had several accounts closed as well and I can assure you I wasnt cheating. I'm certain that a lot of the 2+2 accounts (and I'm sure mine as well) were locked not because of cheating or fraud, but because the way we played with their signup bonuses. There have been lengthy threads there about how to use their (and other MGV) Clearplay signup bonuses to try and make a large win with a fairly small investment.

Is that cheating or fraud? No - Everything was done within the T&C's. I hit up their casinos (as well as many other MGV casinos), busted a few, cashed out some pretty good returns on the others. I play online casinos to make money, and one of the only ways to do that is to use bonuses to my advantage. If that makes me a bad person in your eyes, well tough, but that's not cheating or fraud.

Does that make us unwelcome customers in the eyes of the casinos? Sure, and I would bet that's the reason for them booting us. Honestly, I dont really care that my accounts were locked either. I'm not a total degenerate (yet!), so I can live with getting banned at a few places to try and get some large wins with little risk (not to mention the fact that US players can hardly cashout anymore anyway, so not being able to play there is no big deal).

What it does seem is that they cleaned house with a standard email form rather than communicating the reasons for lockign accounts more explicitly. I'm pretty sure if they sent out an email that either bonus banned people or said that they were no longer welcome because of abuse of the signup bonuses with no additional nonbonus cover play, this thread and the one at 2+2 wouldnt have been started. Maybe to the Meister's point, this thread doesnt belong in the complaints section, but it sure does belong somewhere on this site.

 

[stanny]

I got locked at Desert Dollar, another Fortune Lounge member. Somebody needs to check why this is happening.

I pmed the fortune lounge guy over here already.

 

[jerrylee]

WLVRYN, I'll give you credit for at least imagining why the account could be locked-for bonus whoring.

cbe2869 on the other hand said he doesn't want his account(s) opened, that's after he was asked to verify his IDs, so that tells me a) he has something to hide, b) is just on a mission to tarnish the casino reputation by posting here. It's unethical to come on a forum and make a blanket statement that suddenly a lot of accounts are being closed for no reason, so the casino is therefore wrong.

Most if not all the online casinos have terms which state management can lock, suspend or ban accounts at any time, even without reason or notification. Sounds harsh, but sometimes quick decisive action is needed to stamp out bonus hunters, fraudsters (payment methods, etc) and otherwise shady players.

 

[cash4andy]

cbe2869 on the other hand said he doesn't want his account(s) opened, that's after he was asked to verify his IDs, so that tells me a) he has something to hide, .

If they locked my accounts and I didnt have any money in them then I wouldn't want them reopened either. Looking around other forums these mass lockouts have happened to numerous people, it reminds me very much of mini vegas' behaviour a few months ago, probably a huge overraction to fraudsters affecting many people.

 

[tesla]

I guess it's not really surprising for them to do this, as "whoring" has definitely become a lot more serious(more people are setting up real businesses revolving around this), and they want to stop this, but these casinos really need to figure out a better way to stop these fraud rings. The whole clearplay bonus thing has really screwed things up in terms of bonus abusing.

 

[BJD]

Their casino rep is here on a daily basis. Have you PMd him? If not, why not?

Not sure if PM is a good idea. I sent their rep a PM back on December 7th and it is still showing as unread.

 

[cyprean]

Not sure if PM is a good idea. I sent their rep a PM back on December 7th and it is still showing as unread.

I would like the Casino group's Rep commenting this issue here. Apparently they haven't replied to players' enquiries about the bannings. If innocent players were banned then how could they even get anything solved if the group does not even answer to their mails.

This 'suspicious activity' line is unclear and needs to be defined better.

 

[cbe2869]

cbe2869, are you Rusty's brother? Your last statement is bar none the most ridiculous accusation I've read here in a while. Accounts ARE closed for a reason and it's usually because of cheaters like you who want to sweep issues under the rug and just blast casino groups in public forums, because they feel like it, not because they have a legit claim.

Right. I guess all the people reporting accounts closed here and on 2+2 are just me and my gnome accounts. Let me give you a clue. I seriously doubt hardly anyone if anyone at all who received these emails actually committed any kind of fraud or actual suspicious activity other than perhaps profiting from a bonus.

 

[fortunelounge]

Although Fortune Lounge has always, in the past, been more tolerant towards bonus abusers, unfortunately we cannot continue to do so under current conditions.

After a thorough investigation, we found that our bonuses were being grossly abused, predominantly, on Vegas Palms and Desert Dollar, leading to some severe losses for the casinos. This abuse was being committed by well organized syndicates and individuals and, to my knowledge, no "innocent" player's account was locked.

In the process we locked accounts of players who have abused us and have never returned to the casinos after cashing in and in other cases we locked accounts of players who have pending cash-ins. These cash-ins will not be paid in terms of our Terms and Conditions.

The mail sent to players who were affected is a standard mail and should not have been sent. We apologize for that and an explanatory mail will be sent to all these players today.

The industry has always been plagued by bonus abuse (and a lot of it was our own doing) but this situation cannot continue while operators are trying to survive in a new world and you can expect to see more operators clamping down on bonus abuse in future.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[cbe2869]

WLVRYN, I'll give you credit for at least imagining why the account could be locked-for bonus whoring.

cbe2869 on the other hand said he doesn't want his account(s) opened, that's after he was asked to verify his IDs, so that tells me a) he has something to hide, b) is just on a mission to tarnish the casino reputation by posting here. It's unethical to come on a forum and make a blanket statement that suddenly a lot of accounts are being closed for no reason, so the casino is therefore wrong.

Most if not all the online casinos have terms which state management can lock, suspend or ban accounts at any time, even without reason or notification. Sounds harsh, but sometimes quick decisive action is needed to stamp out bonus hunters, fraudsters (payment methods, etc) and otherwise shady players.

You're a genius. Yeah I've really got something to hide. First off they didn't ask for ID. They said they might request it. Why would I have any reason to care or send them an ID (If I haven't all ready. Can't remember whether I did when I actually played there or not.) when I don't have a dime in there. Hold on Mr. Casino let me send you an ID so you can maybe reopen my account so I can cash out my balance of zero. I hope you don't believe I would actually want my account reopened so I can deposit there again when there are dozens of other Microgaming casinos out there I could choose to play at that actually wouldn't close my account for no reason. Geez, you must walk around with a big giant L on your forehead.

So I guess that if I don't have anything to hide I must just be trying to tarnish their reputation. Here's a clue! They are doing a fine job of that on their own. Who wants to take a wild guess if that casino rep who is on here every day has responded to the PM I sent him or replied in this thread. I'll give you three guesses to the answer and you will probably need all three. Meanwhile more people on this thread and the one at 2+2 are reporting having their accounts closed and some of them actually have money there. Is there really something wrong with not wanting to see people who actually have money there get screwed?

I'm sorry. They just responded as I was typing this. Hope it's good.

 

[The Dude]

...Why do you automatically assume i have "whored" them? I have not done anything fraudulent in any way. I don't have an army of garden gnomes with accounts there or anything of that nature...

Sorry guy, I thought that this was you at 2+2:

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Although I whored these 5 months ago and withdrew immediately and never played there again they decided to lock my accounts...So glad I left no money there but hope others that whored them cash out fast before they get locked.

I guess I was wrong, right? Sorry.

...While this has happened to players who have cashed out ages ago, and not played since, making a proper PAB, following the rules, will at least force FL to investigate the handling of this affair, and justify their actions. This will lead to the player community being able to see whether FL are considered to have handled the situation well, or to have made a complete "balls-up" of it...

Thank you. That is what I was trying to get at earlier. I am a stickler when it comes to dealing with casino complaints, and following the rules that are required reading in order for you to join this forum.

I am not player bashing; I am doing my job as administrator. When it comes to making serious complaints or allegations - ignoring the policies of this forum and the rules for submitting complaints will only worsen the situation for everyone involved.

 

[fortunelounge]

So I guess that if I don't have anything to hide I must just be trying to tarnish their reputation. Here's a clue! They are doing a fine job of that on their own. Who wants to take a wild guess if that casino rep who is on here every day has responded to the PM I sent him or replied in this thread. I'll give you three guesses to the answer and you will probably need all three.

I'm sorry. They just responded as I was typing this. Hope it's good.

Although I though that I did respond to your PM, I realize I did not (only responded to the others) as yours only said: "Please see this post:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post150396"

Thank you. I have seen the post.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge


VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[cbe2869]

Glad to see this response. Some of it I agree with and some I don't.

Although Fortune Lounge has always, in the past, been more tolerant towards bonus abusers, unfortunately we cannot continue to do so under current conditions.

After a thorough investigation, we found that our bonuses were being grossly abused, predominantly, on Vegas Palms and Desert Dollar, leading to some severe losses for the casinos. This abuse was being committed by well organized syndicates and individuals and, to my knowledge, no "innocent" player's account was locked.

Fair enough. If you actually tolerated bonus abusers then it's your own fault though. You could set the play requirements to make your bonuses less attactive to bonus abusers. If you want gamblers and not bonus abusers then your bonuses should reflect that. Closing accounts is not the right answer.

In the process we locked accounts of players who have abused us and have never returned to the casinos after cashing in and in other cases we locked accounts of players who have pending cash-ins. These cash-ins will not be paid in terms of our Terms and Conditions.

This is plain wrong. If a player completes your play requirements that you set then they should be paid if there is not real fraud going on like multiple accounts or stolen funds. Not doing that by quoting some line in your T & Cs that says "We reserve the right to...." is just wrong. You set the play requirements. You should then abide by then. Otherwise in my mind you have zero credibility.

The mail sent to players who were affected is a standard mail and should not have been sent. We apologize for that and an explanatory mail will be sent to all these players today.

Ok that part was good.

The industry has always been plagued by bonus abuse (and a lot of it was our own doing) but this situation cannot continue while operators are trying to survive in a new world and you can expect to see more operators clamping down on bonus abuse in future.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

Agreed. So do the right thing. Pay the people you owe and then make the necessary changes to close the loop holes for bonus whoring. Then you won't have to close accounts except for what we as players see as "real fraud". An individual player who wins because of the promotions and requirements you create shouldn't be treated the same as someone with fifty eleven million accounts. Those are the people you should be after. Less real fraud would mean more money for you and more promotions able to be offered to real players. Otherwise if not willing to fix the problems the right way and you're going to give smart players a postive expectation bonus you shouldn't blame them for taking advantage of it.

 

[cbe2869]

Sorry guy, I thought that this was you at 2+2:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Although I whored these 5 months ago and withdrew immediately and never played there again they decided to lock my accounts...So glad I left no money there but hope others that whored them cash out fast before they get locked.

I guess I was wrong, right? Sorry.


Thank you. That is what I was trying to get at earlier. I am a stickler when it comes to dealing with casino complaints, and following the rules that are required reading in order for you to join this forum.

I am not player bashing; I am doing my job as administrator. When it comes to making serious complaints or allegations - ignoring the policies of this forum and the rules for submitting complaints will only worsen the situation for everyone involved.

No that was not me. If I were going to whore something I wouldn't post online bragging about it. Never really understood what people got out of doing that.

Sorry for not following the rules. I feel like I did what I thought was right but in the wrong way. I will make sure not to do that again in the future.

 

[cbe2869]

To: Fortune Lounge VP Operations

As I said in an earlier post I liked playing in your poker room and would have or might continue to do so. I am a very casual casino player but I am a degenerate poker player. I would have made you dollars in the poker room if not the casino in the long run.

A situation like this though makes me concerned about the safety of my money even in the poker room. With today's gambling climate my chief concern is the safety of my money. There are tons of microgaming skins I could play at so I will play where I feel the most comfortable. Up until now I felt as though Royal Vegas/PokerTime was one of the oldest and most respectable Prima sites. Now though there is some doubt in my mind. I will play where I am treated the best and feel my money is safest plain and simple. I don't want to have to worry about trying to login and my account is frozen with part of my bankroll in it. If I wanted to throw my bankroll away I would just stick it in a Future Bet skin.

As far as I know all the accounts frozen were casino and not poker accounts but with you operating both there is still somewhat of a concern in my mind. It's not out of the realm of possibility for an operator to think poker players are abusing them. Just look at the situation going on now with the microgaming poker skin nordic bet. You are not affiliated with that situation at all but the players there think the operator is screwing them and vice versa.

Make your legitimate players feel safe and in the long run you will reap the rewards.

 

[maaritk]

7 sultans

I am having problems at Fortune Lounge as well. I sent a private message to the Casino Representative 'Fortunelounge' here. He wrote me back quickly and told me that they had banned a lot of players on friday - and if my account showed any signs of abuse then I would banned too.

I deposited yesterday 150 € @ 7sultans. I was lucky at first, but then very unlucky! While playing, after about 30 minutes the connection dropped. I reconnected only to find out that my account was locked. I start to get worried as I had over €1100 in my account..

Then I received an e-mail from Fortune Lounge that they had made an investigation and chosen to lock me and snatch my winnings! I was wondering how 'thorough' this investigation was? What was the reasoning behind this lock out? I think I did not break any of their rules. I played slots and roulette. I dont think they would refund my losses if I had lost.

This is my first time I have ever played at a Fortune Lounge casino, and I thought Microgaming casinos should be reliable. I made some research prior depositing. I was apparently dead wrong! I just lost over €1100. I hope these issues are solved somehow!

One thing is sure, I am never going to deposit at a Fortune Lounge casino ever again!

 

[The Dude]

I am having problems at Fortune Lounge as well. I sent a private message to the affiliate manager here. He wrote me back quickly and told me that they had banned a lot of players on friday - and if my account showed any signs of abuse then I would banned too.

FortuneLonge is not the aff manager. He's the VP of operations. I guess you meant him. (the aff manager is Fortune)

Please PAB. If anybody wants me to check into this personally you must first PAB. So far I have none - zilch.

 

[maaritk]

FortuneLonge is not the aff manager. He's the VP of operations. I guess you meant him. (the aff manager is Fortune)

Please PAB. If anybody wants me to check into this personally you must first PAB. So far I have none - zilch.

Thanks! I contacted you and PAB.

 

[Vesuvio]

Although Fortune Lounge has always, in the past, been more tolerant towards bonus abusers, unfortunately we cannot continue to do so under current conditions.

You don't really mean "bonus abusers" - you mean people who take you up on your offers, meet the terms and withdraw. Perfectly understandable that you don't like winners, but you set the terms of your offers.

After a thorough investigation, we found that our bonuses were being grossly abused, predominantly, on Vegas Palms and Desert Dollar, leading to some severe losses for the casinos. This abuse was being committed by well organized syndicates and individuals and, to my knowledge, no "innocent" player's account was locked.

"Well organized syndicates" generally means no more than people reading the same forums and trying the same offers. It's just the same if someone posts about a casino with great new slots on here and a few dozen choose to play there after reading it - except of course you welcome those players with open arms.

As a general comment, it's hard to see how no "innocent" players would be affected - what you call bonus abuse is really no different to the pattern of play you'd find naturally from an even moderately clued-up player trying out various casinos.

In the process we locked accounts of players who have abused us and have never returned to the casinos after cashing in and in other cases we locked accounts of players who have pending cash-ins. These cash-ins will not be paid in terms of our Terms and Conditions.

Locking accounts of players you don't care to have at your casinos is fine - refusing to pay cash-ins after players met your terms is fraud. (Falling back on your "we can do whatever we like" term is the sure sign of a rogue - and if it became the rule it would fully justify all of the US government's actions with regard to the industry)

The industry has always been plagued by bonus abuse (and a lot of it was our own doing)...

That's something of an understatement. If you offer bonuses players will take you up on them and try to win. It's a game as you try to make the players take you up on them and lose, but the players certainly aren't abusing the casinos any more than you're abusing them.

In practical terms, if instead of altering your bonuses or finding a new business model you decide simply to steal money when players win your reputation will be in tatters. You'll drive business away and deserve everything you get.

 

[Tagdog]

Hi I played at Royal Vegas Casino and Platimum play in June last year. I took the signup bonuses and lost on both accounts despite playing in a profitable way. As I am clearly a bonus abuser would fortune lounge comsider locking my accounts and refunding my deposits please.

 

[The Dude]

It may be more than just bonus "abuse". Some casinos consider player fraud (shared accounts, bogus player info, etc.) as bonus "abuse". I'm trying to get beyond the semantics and find out exactly what happened. I've been told that player fraud is involved - but I'm making an educated guess that not all these accounts are connected with fraudulent activity.

So far only one player has submitted a complaint through me. I'm waiting for a possible 4000 more

 

[fortunelounge]

I am having problems at Fortune Lounge as well. I sent a private message to the Casino Representative 'Fortunelounge' here. He wrote me back quickly and told me that they had banned a lot of players on friday - and if my account showed any signs of abuse then I would banned too.

I deposited yesterday 150 @ 7sultans. I was lucky at first, but then very unlucky! While playing, after about 30 minutes the connection dropped. I reconnected only to find out that my account was locked. I start to get worried as I had over 1100 in my account..

Then I received an e-mail from Fortune Lounge that they had made an investigation and chosen to lock me and snatch my winnings! I was wondering how 'thorough' this investigation was? What was the reasoning behind this lock out? I think I did not break any of their rules. I played slots and roulette. I dont think they would refund my losses if I had lost.

This is my first time I have ever played at a Fortune Lounge casino, and I thought Microgaming casinos should be reliable. I made some research prior depositing. I was apparently dead wrong! I just lost over 1100. I hope these issues are solved somehow!

One thing is sure, I am never going to deposit at a Fortune Lounge casino ever again!

Although I did promise in the PM that I will get back to you, now that this is a posting I might as well answer here.

Apart from abusing our bonus, your account is linked through identifiers to several other players who have displayed exactly the same pattern.

The amount you stated that you had "lost" is incorrect and we have arranged for your purchase of 150 to be refunded.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[BJD]

Not sure if PM is a good idea. I sent their rep a PM back on December 7th and it is still showing as unread.

An update: Today I received a PM from their VP Operations referencing my post and advising me that he has been unable to open my PM from back in December. He asked me to contact him directly via email.

Hopefully his or her involvement will facilitate my PAB from December 14th that is still pending being completed.

 

[fortunelounge]

You don't really mean "bonus abusers" - you mean people who take you up on your offers, meet the terms and withdraw. Perfectly understandable that you don't like winners, but you set the terms of your offers..

I do mean "bonus abusers". We do not, and have not had, issues with players who take us up on our offers, try out the different games in our casinos and withdraw. We have never had any issue with real, legitimate winners either.

This is a case where players purchase the minium required to receive the offer (no problem with this) wager the full amount on one hand of a low risk game and, if they win, proceed to play only French Roulette, betting on red or black / odds or evens to meet the wagering requirements and then to cash in and disappear. This is nothing else than bonus abuse, call it what you like.

"Well organized syndicates" generally means no more than people reading the same forums and trying the same offers. It's just the same if someone posts about a casino with great new slots on here and a few dozen choose to play there after reading it - except of course you welcome those players with open arms.

Thank you for your version. We regard syndicates as players linked by certain identifiers who play from the same area and display the same patterns.

As a general comment, it's hard to see how no "innocent" players would be affected - what you call bonus abuse is really no different to the pattern of play you'd find naturally from an even moderately clued-up player trying out various casinos..

No inncocent players were affected. It will be totally insane of us to throw away good (potential) business. Moderately clued-up players do not all display exactly the same patterns as in this case.

Locking accounts of players you don't care to have at your casinos is fine - refusing to pay cash-ins after players met your terms is fraud. (Falling back on your "we can do whatever we like" term is the sure sign of a rogue - and if it became the rule it would fully justify all of the US government's actions with regard to the industry)That's something of an understatement. If you offer bonuses players will take you up on them and try to win. It's a game as you try to make the players take you up on them and lose, but the players certainly aren't abusing the casinos any more than you're abusing them.

If a bank does not have metal detectors it doesn't justify why the bank should be robbed.

Bonuses are there to attract real, honest, bona fide players. It should be our right to exclude players who clearly display that they are only interested in taking advantage of a free money offer with no intention to return.

We have never practiced "we can do whatever we like" You seem to advocate this for players.

In practical terms, if instead of altering your bonuses or finding a new business model you decide simply to steal money when players win your reputation will be in tatters. You'll drive business away and deserve everything you get.

If we (and other operators) keep on allowing bonus abuse to this extent, we won't have a business.

Our Terms and Conditions are very explicit on this issue. It is every player's responsibility to read, understand and agree to these Terms and Conditions and no player is allowed to open an account unless he/she agrees to these terms. If someone is not happy with a particular term or condition, then the logical thing to do is to go and find a casino that does not have such a term.
Terms and Conditions are there to protect players and casino alike.

It boggles my mind then that, when we enforce these terms, it becomes an issue and we are wrong. We are then liars and thieves and the player is the victim.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[winbig]

to meet the wagering requirements and then to cash in and disappear. This is nothing else than bonus abuse, call it what you like.

How do you know they won't be back? There's no way to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

That scenario is similar to insurance companies in the USA charging 2x the normal rate to their (potential) customers that have bad credit - even if they have a excellent driving history. They claim that people with bad credit are more of a risk to have claims, which is untrue.

You can claim that these people won't be back, judging by past experience..That doesn't mean that every single player that exhibits this behaviour won't be back!

And of course, the bottom line is this:

If the player has met the WR without breaking YOUR T&C, pay them -- then lock their account if you don't want their future business. Not the other way around!

 

[Tagdog]

I do mean "bonus abusers". We do not, and have not had, issues with players who take us up on our offers, try out the different games in our casinos and withdraw. We have never had any issue with real, legitimate winners either.

This is a case where players purchase the minium required to receive the offer (no problem with this) wager the full amount on one hand of a low risk game and, if they win, proceed to play only French Roulette, betting on red or black / odds or evens to meet the wagering requirements and then to cash in and disappear. This is nothing else than bonus abuse, call it what you like.

I call this meeting the criteria of your bonus. If they simultaneously covered red and black I would call that bonus abuse, if they only bet red or only bet black then they're playing an allowed game with a risk, write french roulette out of the terms and conditions if you dont want people playing it.

 

[fortunelounge]

How do you know they won't be back? There's no way to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Of all accounts locked, 91% have already displayed this behavior. Seems like a good measurement to me - especially if the remaining 9% displayed the same exact pattern in terms of purchasing, playing and cashing in.

If you read other forums you will see players actually posting that they deliberately abused us.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[thetic]

How do you know they won't be back? There's no way to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Of all accounts locked, 91% have already displayed this behavior. Seems like a good measurement to me - especially if the remaining 9% displayed the same exact pattern in terms of purchasing, playing and cashing in.

If you read other forums you will see players actually posting that they deliberately abused us.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

While it might be quite apparent that you are suffering from what you see as bonus abuse, this is players following YOUR terms & conditions so it is not abuse whether or not they brag about abusing/scalping etc at your casino. As such you should pay them.

I take it you are returning all the deposits from those you see as Bonus Abusers who bet their entire bonus & deposit on 1 hand and lost that hand.

If you are concerned about people wagering entire bonus & deposit on blackjack/baccarat etc. and then grinding on French Roulette if they win, change the terms & conditions to exclude this. It should not take too much intelligence to work out a system to prevent this while still having a bonus that gives honest players a chance to play the games.

For example put a clause in that says that no wager greater than a certain value (maybe something like $20 on a 100% match up to $100 bonus) can be done while playing with bonus.

 

[NextToYou]

As I have said earlier in power bet thread, there is not such thing as bonus abuse. There is just wagering requirements some casino decides to offer and if player completes them, then there can not be any problem.

So change the terms for christ sake if you dont like some kind of a playing pattern! How hard is that?! Confiscating winnings played under bonus terms you have decided to offer is simply rogue behaviour. I hope you get rogued if you dont pay all the players.

 

[maaritk]

I finally received an explanation why they locked me out. They also snatched my winnings of over €1100.

we have reviewed your 7Sultans casino account and see that you have made the minimum purchase to receive the maximum sign up bonus. We also see that you only made use of French Roulette to meet the wagering requirements for the bonus.

Your play on French Roulette was based on wagering on Black. Wagering on Black or Red will result in no loss or win for either the Player or the Casino.

The main outcome is the increased wagering meeting the wagering required on the bonus money with no change to the balance, (unless a Zero is landed).

Therefore there is no chance for the casino to win back its bonus allocated or the purchase amount from the player.

There was no intention to play at the Casino, and only to cashin the bonus money.

I would like to make corrections: I deposited the maximum to get the maximum bonus. It was 150€. Then I just did not bet on black, I bet on Black Even and 19-36 at the same time. This was risky, because I had over €1205 balance at best but then I dropped down to near €1100 pretty quickly. I also played other games. I played some video slots. I didnt have so much luck in those so I switched back to roulette. That is when they locked me out.

If roulette was not allowed why it didn't say so in the terms & conditions? I feel like being robbed... in the terms & conditions it says roulette counts 50% and american 100%..

 

[BBKPoker]

Great, one of the few remaining credible groups for US players decides to hop directly into the toilet.

The invocation of the old "we reserve the right to..." clause by <b>ANY</b> casino in defense of their decision to revoke winnings on bonuses where the terms of the bonus have been appropriately met with no explanation as to why they are being revoked aside from a vague reference to these mysterious "identifiers" should be a warning bell for <b>all</b> players to run away as fast as they can and not play there.

My accounts are still open there as far as I'm aware (at least they haven't emailed me if they *have* closed them) but I'm certainly not playing there given the distasteful, condescending, and surprisingly combatative way they've been addressing legitimate concerns players have been posting here. Good thing I have a few other options for now, and since moving to the UK in January, I will have even better options shortly.

 

[mikepipe]

I finally received an explanation why they locked me out. They also snatched my winnings of over €1100.



I would like to make corrections: I deposited the maximum to get the maximum bonus. It was 150€. Then I just did not bet on black, I bet on Black Even and 19-36 at the same time. This was risky, because I had over €1205 balance at best but then I dropped down to near €1100 pretty quickly. I also played other games. I played some video slots. I didnt have so much luck in those so I switched back to roulette. That is when they locked me out.

If roulette was not allowed why it didn't say so in the terms & conditions? I feel like being robbed... in the terms & conditions it says roulette counts 50% and american 100%..

Some ugly points:
at first: even if fortunelounge may have the right, to think, the play was unfair, they should learn the very basics of probability.
If one bets black OR red - there is of course a risk for player and casino.
How much house edge do you want, much more than just this one number?

even if a player may have the right to deposit the minimum required for the maximum bonus - the other point (linked accounts, suspicious patterns) is by far more severe.
And if its true what fortunelounge says, the player should be glad to have his deposit back and remain silent.
I know FL as an honest group and i am quite positive FL can circumstantiate, what he claimed.

 

[BBKPoker]

Some ugly points:
at first: even if fortunelounge may have the right, to think, the play was unfair, they should learn the very basics of probability.
If one bets black OR red - there is of course a risk for player and casino.
How much house edge do you want, much more than just this one number?

even if a player may have the right to deposit the minimum required for the maximum bonus - the other point (linked accounts, suspicious patterns) is by far more severe.
And if its true what fortunelounge says, the player should be glad to have his deposit back and remain silent.
I know FL as an honest group and i am quite positive FL can circumstantiate, what he claimed.

Saying that betting outside bets such as black/red, odd/even or high/low doesn't create any or win for the casino or player is a flat out lie as well. Did they forget that they have a 0 on their roulette wheel? According to Wizard of Odds:

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outside bets on Microgaming French Roulette have a house edge of 1.35%.

The player did not bet red/black at the same time, or odd/even at the sametime, or high/low at the sametime, so I don't see where they are going with this fictious argument.