Winner Casino is not paying. Who played recently?

[Casinomeister]

I've been in touch with the operators, and they've told me that all acounts of players who participated in this game were reset.

As of now, all players that played in either casino during this time have had their account balances reset to the amount of their initial deposit plus any relevant bonuses, regardless if they won or lost. The funds are now back in their casino account and they may cash out their deposits or stay and play.

[dresden]

Hmm...so I guess at 'Winner Casino' the losers turn out to be winners and the winners turn out to be losers.

I guess I should search for a place to play called 'Loser Casino' where the situation might be reversed.

Do you consider this to be a fair resolution?

[Slotster!]

Do you consider this to be a fair resolution?

It seems a fair resolution on the surface to me... I do wonder however, how much they were 'up' or 'down'?... A casino could suffer a freak really bad run for a few weeks and, as a result, decide to void all plays - refunding winners and losers, but giving them another crack at starting from zero with the house edge kicking in.

I'm not in any way suggesting this is what happened, and in my opinion the resolution for a 'software glitch' is fair. It does scare me a bit that casino's can do stuff like this though... Guess it's times like this that the real difference between 'online' and 'bricks and mortar' really hits home!...

[thelawnet]

It seems a fair resolution on the surface to me... I do wonder however, how much they were 'up' or 'down'?... A casino could suffer a freak really bad run for a few weeks and, as a result, decide to void all plays - refunding winners and losers, but giving them another crack at starting from zero with the house edge kicking in.

I'm not in any way suggesting this is what happened, and in my opinion the resolution for a 'software glitch' is fair. It does scare me a bit that casino's can do stuff like this though... Guess it's times like this that the real difference between 'online' and 'bricks and mortar' really hits home!...

Sounds like this a casino that won't have any more customers....

You'd have to be out of your mind to play at a place that will void winnings in this manner. How do they explain this? As a programmer I can't see how it could be magically paying out too much.

It's illogical and highly improbable.

There is no way that this could happen unless the software is crooked or if the casino was not following the rules (e.g., not withdrawing bets from the players' accounts).

Blackjack can only be implemented by dealing cards at random from a deck. I can't really see how this can go wrong. Nobody is saying they were not playing the right rules or not deducting losses or anything. They just seem to be saying the payout was set too low. What kind of casino sets payout? You do not 'set' payout, you deal random cards, observe a set of rules, and there is an expected casino win of a calculable percentage.

This is just garbage. How could anybody want to play here again after this non-explanation of exactly how it is possible that the casino was paying out wrongly.

Things like Playtech's blackjack switch are obvious - they changed their rules for switching, and that affects the game.

But they are claiming not to have changed anything and still want to take everybody's money.

This explains exactly why the USA wants to ban online gambling, and with shitty places like this that won't explain what they are doing and are completely unaccountable to anyone, who can blame them.

[Pinababy69]

It does scare me a bit that casino's can do stuff like this though...

I second that sentiment.

[jetset]

It seems to me that this cannot be a fair solution for players who were winners, and after reading thelawnet's comment above on the technical possibilities I think the casino owes a more detailed explanation for their actions....that is if they want to hold on to their players, who by now must be thoroughly alarmed.

Exactly what sort of glitch was this? Is this sort of event covered in the T&Cs?

If it is a software fault, they are going to have to do an awful lot more than this to convince the players that they are offering fair and safe gambling.

[jetset]

I've just been re-reading Werner's initiating post on this thread, and in particular the first notifications that these casinos sent to players. Here is what they said:

QUOTE: During the period of March 10th to March 14th new software elements were implemented to our new game engine.

Few days after launching the new software we noticed that the “Black Jack” game engine was damaged during the implementation and all players of the “Black Jack” game were given significant advantage over the house, resulting in unfair results for the house.

As an immediate solution, the game engine was repaired on March 21st .

According to the terms and conditions you agreed upon installing the software, We will reverse the activity recorded between March 14th to March 21st .UNQUOTE

I'm assuming that in terms of the T&C's players are SOL if the casino claims there was a software malfunction, which is what they seem to be doing here. But is this unilateral and unsupported claim enough to convince players?

The operator here should bear in mind that limiting the damage caused to the casino by this glitch may be a short term solution with the T&Cs on his or her side....but this is going to cost them bigtime going forward in terms of lost business and a bad rep.

[thelawnet]

I've just been re-reading Werner's initiating post on this thread, and in particular the first notifications that these casinos sent to players. Here is what they said:

QUOTE: During the period of March 10th to March 14th new software elements were implemented to our new game engine.

Few days after launching the new software we noticed that the “Black Jack” game engine was damaged during the implementation and all players of the “Black Jack” game were given significant advantage over the house, resulting in unfair results for the house.

As an immediate solution, the game engine was repaired on March 21st .

According to the terms and conditions you agreed upon installing the software, We will reverse the activity recorded between March 14th to March 21st .UNQUOTE

I'm assuming that in terms of the T&C's players are SOL if the casino claims there was a software malfunction, which is what they seem to be doing here. But is this unilateral and unsupported claim enough to convince players?

The operator here should bear in mind that limiting the damage caused to the casino by this glitch may be a short term solution with the T&Cs on his or her side....but this is going to cost them bigtime going forward in terms of lost business and a bad rep.

They really need to give an explanation as to what 'unfair advantage against the house' means. Let's not forget that they set up the ****ing casino. They make the rules. Nobody complains when they go and play keno or blackjack or slots that the casino has an 'unfair advantage against the player' (which they do, 365 days a year). There doesn't seem to be any suggestion that anyone was exploiting their software.

What does this advantage amount to? Did they stick on soft 17 instead of hitting? Use 1 deck instead of 8? All of these things would reduce the player edge, or if the rules are good enough then the player might have a small advantage. They need to say what was wrong and how much of a % advantage they have.

At the moment it looks like a crappy casino where they 'set' the payout of their table games to whatever percentage they like, and on this occasion set it too high - and this is something that just isn't possible unless your casino is crooked.

[kenneth2816]

Imagine a land based casino contacting BJ winners days later asking for their money back because it was determined that the dealer was Bi Polar and failed to take his meds that day, thus giving the player a decided and unfair advantage over the house...................

[Linus]

What difference does it make what the T&C says?

Don't most (all?) casinos have say "we can do whatever we want" in their T&Cs?

If a player says, "Hey, I was drunk," does he get his money back?

What about, "I had a spasm in my hand and clicked the wrong button"?

It's unbelievable a casino could think they could get away with this.