Bodog/SEO Discussion (split)

[Rollo]

I agree, losing one's domain is a big deal and it can take years to recover one's search engine traffic. That said, Bodog I'm sure relies very little on free traffic as it has strong brand recognition and relies primarily on other forms of advertising (banners, print, affilaite, etc...) so I don't think it's as big a deal for them as it would be for a pure advertising based portal.

Also, major sites generally have a direct channel to Google via a dedicated rep and can get them fix this sort of issue from the back end. That's most likely what happened. Yahoo and MSN are a bit more problematic. Newbodog.com is #1 in Google for keyword "bodog", but nowhere to be found in the other two.

Why New Bodog.com?

http://www.newbodog.com/about/why-newbodog-com.jsp

CA looks pretty confident, hands positioned in a power pyramid, lips slightly pursed in a gesture of seriousness and sincerity. His explaination seeming honest, convincing, trustworthy

... until you look down and notice that he's wearing a thumb ring.

Too funny...

Cal, take off that thumb ring, man.

[lots0]

Also, major sites generally have a direct channel to Google and the others via a dedicated rep and can get them fix this sort of issue from the back end. That's most likely what happened.

I can guarantee, that this did NOT happen. There is no "direct Channel" to Google's backend, unless your a very big addwords advertiser (and then only for advertising stuff and NOT for search rankings)... and bodog was kicked off google addwords quite sometime ago along with all the other online gambling advertising in google.

I agree that bodog.com, does have name recognition. But that only goes so far on the WWW... Because newbodog.com is the name that needs to be recognized by the public now.

The majority of new players for newbodog are gonna come from search marketing... No search marketing, no new players, simple as that. No new players and soon newbodog goes the way of the Dinosaurs.

With the Google Search Quality Team watching the SEO's at newbodog closely... if the SEO's for newbodog try any shady SEO tactics, they are gonna get hammered by google (in other words, newbodog will get banned or penalized by google).

This is gonna be very interesting to watch. If the newbodog.com SEO's make one wrong step in their quest for those #1 search money spots, they are gonna be in far far worse shape than they are now.

I will say that is a very good opportunity for some bodog affiliate to score big, if they can figure out how to bridge the gap between the old domain name and the new domain name.... But in my opinion, only fools promote a program that shorts them at every chance they get... And the rumor around the water cooler is that bodog shorts it's affiliates...


**Added** - A little bird just whispered in my ear, the newbodog SEO's are hard at work. Contacting all their 'paid' linking partners and are asking them to point their links to newbodog.com instead of bodog.com. The first step in regaining their lost search rankings.... But google is watching and google really really hates paid links.

[Rollo]

There is no "direct Channel" to Google's backend

Yes there is.

Major sites have dedicated Google reps (meaning liasons that offer them personalized attention) and can get issues resolved in 24 hours or so. Google really takes care of important authority sites... which is part of the reason they are #1. Google's algos are really good and might be able to detect what happened on their own, but it would be easy for a company like Bodog to simply contact Google and have them fix it.

Why would Bodog have to "game" the engines to be #1 for their brand? It's in Google's interest to give the people what they are looking for, not to play games. Bodog will never get penalized for link bombing on the term "bodog". That's their brand.

As far as paid inbound links go, there is no penalty for paid links, Google's algos just ignore them or give them little weight so it's a waste of money.

SEO isn't that important for a company like bodog. Does Ford really need to have their site come up #1 for "cars" to get new clients?

I bet free traffic from SERPs makes up about 5% to 10% of Bodog's new clients, max.

SEO is all about free search engine based traffic, nothing more. Bodog doesn't need free traffic to succeed.

[lojo]

...looks pretty confident, hands positioned in a power pyramid, lips slightly pursed in a gesture of seriousness and sincerity.

Hands positioned in a power pyramid: can be interpretted as a "Slight sign of definite superiority"

Pursed lips can also mean fixed views that cannot be changed. This usually reveals an arrogant and superficial character.

Ahh, ain't body language great?

[lots0]

There is no "direct Channel" to Google's backend
Yes there is.

Show it to me. Or hook me up with ANYONE that has a direct access (that is not adwords based) and I'll give you $10,000 USD cash if you can hook me up.

FYI - I been an SEO since before google existed. I also rub noses with some folks on the google search quality team most everyday... and that is as close as anyone gets to googles SERP.

As far as paid inbound links go, there is no penalty for paid links

Really, your SEO is a bit out of date, I think your talking 2005 SEO not 2007 SEO.
You should see what Matt Cutts (Google's head of Search Quality) has to say about paid links.
www.mattcutts.com/blog/how-to-report-paid-links/
Matt wants everyone to report paid links, so those sites can be PENALIZED in the SERP by having the juice from the paid links turned off and the sites trust ranking reduced.

Now if you really want to talk about general SEO, we should start another thread and not hijack this one.

[Simmo!]

I too agree that there is no direct access to influence in Google rankings. If there was, it would be *major* news.

[Rollo]

Yeah, the photo is pretty amusing.

This is getting really off topic, but oh well... maybe everyone else will find it interesting. Anything else, feel free to message me.

Anyway, I have a dedicated Google rep. I own a very highly trafficed site (not gambling related). Once I started getting major traffic, Google started contacted me with various offers to assist in optimizing the site, ad placement, marketing campaigns, and other things. Google is very helpful.

I also have several friends and aquantences that have them as well. There are a lot that goes on behind the scenes, particularly for heavy Adsense or Adwords users. I'm not saying Google will assist you in ranking "money" keywords like "online sports betting." They won't. That would be news and also would destoy all their credibility. For these generic money keywords, SEO is very important. All the issues you mentioned apply, especially if you're black hat, but helping a major company rank for it's brand in this case is another story. All it requires is a redirect.

What I am saying is that coming up in the top 5 for "online sports betting" isn't essential for Bodog like it would be for a pure middleman affialite portal becuase they (BD) have the dosh to invest in all sorts of marketing. Free SERP traffick based sites are really the worst and most unpredictable business model one can follow - a change in the algos can send a site to oblivion. It's the only option if you don't have many resources, but more established sites diverify.

A company's brand is a special case becuase to serach on "bodog" requires prior knowledge of bodog and so it's really out of the realm of what SEOs dedicate themselves to doing. SEOs really go for free traffic on money keywords like "online poker" or whatever. I guess if your brand is "online poker" you're shit out of luck.

It may be that Google's algo just corrected the issue becuase it's fast and very, very good, but one CAN fix such issues by contacting Google. There is no magic that the Bodog team could manage in a week if it were against Google's will... think about it. Either they contacted Google or the algos corrected the issue automatically based on the content shift to the new domain, the fact that the old domain is 404, and all the inbound links shifting from bodog.com to newbodog.com.

Anyway, there is a helluva lot that goes on behind the sceens that most people don't know about. There are special incentives and programs that Google does not want to be made public. Investigate some of these things in the private formus on the major webmaster boards and you'll find independent confirmation.

I guess you can beleive that I'm just making it up to look cool, but if you dig a bit you'll see that Google treats important sites with major traffic differently.

[lots0]

The only reason you have a dedicated google rep is that you are running google adsense on your site. Once a sites adsense traffic reaches a certain point the site gets a dedicated google rep, thats google's policy.

Major sites that do not run google adsense or google adwords, do not get their own dedicated rep, no matter how much traffic they get or how big they are, like Wikipedia. Wikipedia has no google dedicated rep and it is one of if the biggest most trafficked sites on the WWW.

adsense does not allow gambling sites, so no gambling site has a dedicated google rep.

... And google is aways helpful when it comes to making them more money...

[Rollo]

Last post on the topic...

Do you really think if Wikipedia lost thier domain and had to move to a new one they would have to game the engines to come up #1 for Wikipedia and Google would be "watching" them to make sure they didn't pull any black hat moves trying to be #1 for the search term "Wikipedia"?

You don't need a dedicated Adsense rep or Adwords rep to contact Google. Google will eventually respond even to issues average webmasters are having. Do you really think a site like Wikipedia would have to wait in line? One phone call is all it would take. Moreover, Google's algo would likely correct the issue in short order given the mega amount of spidering Wiki gets.

Anyway, let's do everyone else a favor and not continue the dicussion here. It's gotten way off topic. Let's move it to the webmaster formus or someplace else if you want to continue the debate. Cool?

[lots0]

My last post on the SEO subject, as well.

Do you really think a site like Wikipedia would have to wait in line? One phone call is all it would take.

Really who would they call? The google front desk at the Plex? Try calling google out the blue, I have, your not going to get anything resolved that way.

The ONLY reason you and your friends have a contact at google is because you Partnered with Google by running google adsense adds on your sites.

Google does not care that Calvin lost his right to the bodog domain name. Google also does not care, if newbodog.com comes up in a search for [bodog] or not.

What google does care about is the manipulation of it's SERP and in order to regain their search market share (closer to 65% - 75% of bodogs new players come from search marketing) the bodog SEO's are gonna hafta push the SEO envelope, a lot.

bodog spent so much money on SEO (search market player accusation) in the past, a guy I know was able to build a new very large, very nice house with just some of the SEO money he made from bodog.

Want a little inside bodog SEO info??? Try the blog at ...
gregboser dot com.

BTW - The $10,000 USD offer still stands.