Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeCasino
As much as I would like to sit here all day long each day and debate the morality of my decisions, it's simply not practical. The origin of this thread came from two players who complained their funds were removed from their Neteller accounts. This money was never meant to be credited in the first place but I did the right thing and put it back into their Casino account which would have been the default situation had our software supported our T&C's.
I can't help but feel that I'm bearing the brunt of your anger regarding things many have done before me and as much as I've tried to appease the lot of you, it's in the end, impossible to please everyone. As important as these issues are, this thread is taking up far too much of my time and since there is no governing body here other than CM, I'm forced to leave this in his capable hands.
1. I have told you that I will not initiate Neteller chargebacks in the future for any reason other than fraud. I will not change our T&C's to restrict our ability to do this. If you're not defrauding our Casino, you have nothing to worry about. Fraud = multiple accounts, using other people's accounts, etc. If I need to define Fraud for you then we have a much larger problem here.
2. I have put the players' money back into their Casino account and allowed them to play out their wagering requirements. Perhaps Mohammed and Anders aren't doing backflips over this but they are happy with the resolution and have said so in the thread. What more would like me to do exactly?
3. I have agreed to date our T&C's and to put a note on our index page notifying when recent changes have been made with a link to the new terms. I will not make this a massive road-sign on the index page though. It will sit around where the No-US Players and the Powered by Microgaming logos are. If this is unnaceptable to you I'm sorry but it's more than anyone else is doing.
4. I have not paid out Jens because she blatantly broke our T&C's, made one bet, and cashed out. This is classic promo abuse and our terms ecist to protect us from just this kind of player. Why should Jens be the only player to become an exception to this rule? Though my decision here was solely based on breaking the T&C's, I'm even less inclined to make an exception since she decided to drag her issue into an angry mob in the hopes you'd all agree with her by default. Lastly, assuming our terms are like every other MGS Casino is a ridiculous excuse for not reading them. I notice how now you have our terms under a microscope but had you read them in the first place, we wouldn't be in this situation. My answer is no and it's final.
5. Regarding downloading a casino first and then registering several days later, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. It's common sense that before you deposit, you should read the terms and conditions. I think it's a real stretch to think that someone would download our software, spend the time studying our T&C's, but then not even registering until several days after. I feel I've done enough to protect the players' interests if the terms are valid at the time of fun player registration. I am not going to email every fun player about changes to the terms. Also, I have a fun account with at least 20 Casinos and none of them have ever done this either. Not only that but none of them as far as I have seen are notifying people of T&C changes anywhere on the site. Nevermind the index page.
This has gone on long enough. Some of you have made some very good points and suggestions that I am going to enact. However, I am not going to spend my time each day going through this thread and becoming a doormat for the Casino industry. I think it's time for CM to step in here and decide what he thinks should be done. We're an accredited Casino here and the actions I've taken are the final actions that will be taken in this issue. If he feels that we shouldn't be accredited after this, so be it. My decisions are final and that is literally the end of this discussion. Again, I appreciate all the civilized input I've received and your suggestions will be enacted next week.
Thanks and good luck,
Josh.
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Hi Josh -
I'm Keith, the guy who you have consistantly avoided addressing directly.
I'm sorry that this will be your last post on this issue, as it's clear this issue demands further investigation and discussion. I'm also always respectful towards someone, who in the face of further
VALID criticism, packs up his marbles and runs home.
Angry mob? Curiously, this thread, which certainly had all of the fuel necessary for an extremely ugly exchange, remained quite respectful. Because you don't appreciate our unwillingness to swallow your bottomline, you want to label us a mob? If you remove the TravelMaxx hijack and the Spearmaster sidebar, this has been an extremely orderly and respectful exchange of ideas and information (in comparison with what
can happen around here).
Your accreditation here is nothing more than text on a webpage. After you are accredited, it is
up to you and your employees to maintain a level of dignity that this community agrees is a bit above the rest. Bryan can give you the chance up front, but ultimately you will be judged by what's posted in this community. If you have no issues posted, it can be assumed that you are doing good business and a player browsing this community might feel very comfortable making a deposit with your casino. On the other hand, a thread like this can easily (and mostly likely will) null and void the accreditation provided in text. Sorry to tell you that life is about "what have you done for us lately?". Don't kill the messenger here... it's how it is, and I just live in this world and go by the same rules.
Your integrity, in my view (and I know that matters not to you, but I thought I would recognize that up front), is starting to dwindle quite rapidly. I have not appreciated TravelMaxx's attempt to piggy-back an issue onto this one, but now likewise, you have attempted to attach the Neteller issue onto other issues of T&C's dating and ease of access. You have used the player's "thanks" for fixing those things as a vehicle to attach this "not unless it's approved by my desk" Neteller issue. As GM and a few others tried to make it clear that your "solution" there was not accetable, you started getting angry and are now going to tantrum off into the sunset. That speaks volumes about you as a person and a casino manager.
Let me point out that, unless I missed a response somewhere,
not one single member of this community has "approved" of your solution to only raid a Neteller account if it meets your personal approval." Not a single one.
You were given an opportunity. Let me explain:
What has been revealed in this thread is something that will be investigated. Ultimately, one of two things will happen here. Either it will come to light that you lied to Neteller (and a vendor actually does need to cite a reason for a chargeback), or this flaw in Neteller will be exposed and fixed. It does not matter which of these two things comes to pass, the ultimate outcome will be that this hole will get patched, and even if you
wanted to do this in the future, you will not be able to.
So you have been given the opportuniy here to STOP doing this
for any reason other than 2x mistaken funding, and recognize that this will not be allowed in the future. By continually insisting you want to remain able to raid a Neteller account if you feel it warrants it, you are just being overbearing and obnoxiously pompous for no gain in the long run.
So I guess you passed on that opportunity, and have revealed that you are the typical casino manager who feels that you are the judge, jury and executioner, and that we are all peasants beneath you. You can
buy out a couple of players and announce that they are happy, but unfortunately we are a bit smarter than to fall for that. I think we all feel very comfortable that, after you violated their respective personal e-Wallets and once they are done with their WR, these two players will cashout and be long gone, never to do business with you again. That's the thing about attempting to buy loyalty and
PR, it is short-lived and useless. I do hope a couple of grand (well, one was for 1k, not sure what the other one was worth) was worth the 10 mins of
PR it bought you.
On the level of obstinance that you have displayed,
I would recommend that any current clients of Prime close their account and move their business elsewhere. I would also recommend to anyone that they NOT open a new account with Prime casino. This recommendation is my opinion, and my opinion alone, based on the answers you have provided to us in this very thread, as well as the answers you
refused to provide.
Good day sir,
- Keith